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Old 02-19-2015, 04:32 PM   #1
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Lightbulb Any advice on building a turbo kit comparable to FM II Hydra from scratch?

Hey guys what's up?

I have a 95 miata that's been previously turbo'd, but the original owner took it off before he sold it to the guy who I bought the car from.

The oil pan has a spot for the oil feed line already, I also have an upgraded clutch, and a wideband o2 sensor with a gauge, and a 3" silverline dual exhaust.

I have decided to try and piece together a kit myself and see if I can save some money in comparison with a FM II hydra kit.

1. Cx racing 1.8 t3 kit: (turbo, manifold, downpipe, oil line kit) -- $1918

Cxracing Turbo Manifold Downpipe Kit for Mazda Miata MX 5 1 8L NA T T3 Top Mount | eBay

2.DeatschWerks 700cc Fuel Injectors -- $339

Deatschwerks 700cc Fuel Injectors 1990 2005 Mazda Miata | eBay

3. Megaqsuirt PNP -- $799

1994 1995 Mazda Miata Megasquirt MSPNP 2 Plug and Play Tunable ECU | eBay

4. Synapse BOV -- $189

Synapse Universal Synchronic Blow Off Valve BOV Silver Black Al Flange 16002A | eBay

5. 2.5" Black intercooler w/ piping kit -- $161

2 5" Black Piping Intercooler Kit Blue Coupler Clamp turbocharger Supercharger | eBay

6. Manual boost controller -- $12

Universal Adjustable Racing Turbo 30PSI Manual Boost Bypass Controller Kit Black | eBay

7. Boost Gauge -- $11

2" 52mm Auto Car Turbo Boost Vacuum Press Gauge Meter Blue LED Light US Stock | eBay

8. EGR block off plate -- $26

1994 2005 Mazda Miata MX 5 EGR Block Off Plates | eBay

9. GFB turbo fuse -- $125

Go Fast Bits "Turbo Fuse" Inline Overboost Protection Free Shipping | eBay

Total so far -- $3580
Savings vs FM II Hydra kit -- $1715


I figure I should replace my radiator eventually for better cooling, but just trying to get a barebones kit setup right now. I know the FM hydra kit doesn't need a larger fuel pump so I didn't include that in the kit I am trying to piece together.

What else would I need to purchase in order to have a daily driver setup? Am I even going in the right direction with this kit so far? Should I change anything or think differently about this?

Thanks in advance for any help! It's much appreciated.
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Old 02-19-2015, 04:38 PM   #2
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This can be done much cheaper.
GT500 injectors.
Get Shuiend or Artech to make the exhaust.
T25 can reach the 230 power goals at peak efficiency. E85 would help. FMII is 2560. So use a T28 or a discopotato
Turbo fuse is a waste of money. Megasquirt will handle overboost. Use the savings to buy decent gauges instead of that shitty one.
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Old 02-19-2015, 04:53 PM   #3
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+1 for artech mani and DP over that ebay crap.
ms can run and ebc rather than the manual boost controller.

I'd probably start off with just the FM manifold and DP package then source a good condition second hand turbo. Sr20 turbo are cheap of disco potato for more power.

Cast Iron manifold are extremely reliable and rarely fatigue crack and can support the weight of the turbo without bracing unlock some more elaborate welded manifolds.

http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?...0%20%201990-93
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Old 02-19-2015, 04:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schuyler View Post
This can be done much cheaper.
GT500 injectors.
Get Shuiend or Artech to make the exhaust.
T25 can reach the 230 power goals at peak efficiency. E85 would help. FMII is 2560. So use a T28 or a discopotato
Turbo fuse is a waste of money. Megasquirt will handle overboost. Use the savings to buy decent gauges instead of that shitty one.


1. t28 turbo -- $175

GT2871 GT25 GT28 T25 T28 GT2860 Turbo turbocharger Water Oil Cooled 64 A R | eBay

2. gt500 injectors -- $270

2013 14 Shelby GT500 55lb 55 Fuel Injectors Bosch 5 4 EV14 07 08 09 10 11 12 | eBay

3. Megaqsuirt PNP -- $799

4. Synapse BOV -- $189

5. 2.5" Black intercooler w/ piping kit -- $161

6. Manual boost controller -- $12

7. Boost Gauge -- $11

8. EGR block off plate -- $26


Total so far -- $1643 w/out manifold/downpipe/oil and water lines You have been a HUGE help haha thank you so much!

Are you talking about Shuiend the user who sells the mxturbo.com turbo kits?
Artech ARTech Fabrication - Custom Fabricating? Do you by any chance know what downpipe and manifold I'd need? I have a 2.5" magnaflow cat on currently before the 3" silverline starts.
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Old 02-19-2015, 05:04 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by cyotani View Post
+1 for artech mani and DP over that ebay crap.
ms can run and ebc rather than the manual boost controller.

I'd probably start off with just the FM manifold and DP package then source a good condition second hand turbo. Sr20 turbo are cheap of disco potato for more power.

Cast Iron manifold are extremely reliable and rarely fatigue crack and can support the weight of the turbo without bracing unlock some more elaborate welded manifolds.

Flyin' Miata : Turbochargers : Parts and upgrades : DIY turbo manifold/outlet/downpipe
Is this the one you are suggesting?
DIY turbo manifold/outlet/downpipe

Flyin' Miata : Turbochargers : Parts and upgrades : DIY turbo manifold/outlet/downpipe


I could most likely go to a pick n pull and find a 2g DSM to grab the t28 off of for cheaper than the 175 i quoted from ebay.

1. t28 turbo -- $175 (possible pick-n-pull source)

2. gt500 injectors -- $270

3. Megaqsuirt PNP -- $799

4. Synapse BOV -- $189

5. 2.5" Black intercooler w/ piping kit -- $161

7. Boost Gauge -- $11 (will upgrade this)

8. EGR block off plate -- $26

9. FM DP/Mani -- $749

total so far -- $2380

I love that the price keeps going down, and you guys are helping me get better quality parts

Do you think Artech would be cheaper in price than than FM but still be quality?
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Old 02-19-2015, 05:17 PM   #6
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by the way, that ebay link kit goes for $960 directly from cx racing unless I'm missing something or they charge $900 for shipping...

cxracing.com: CXRacing Turbo Manifold DownPipe Kit For Mazda Miata MX-5 1.8L NA-T T3 Top Mount

artech makes quality and proven parts. But if you just want a t25/t28 setup with mild goal the FM manifold/DP will support that no problem reliably and is probably more cost effective. If your track racing add trackspeed's 10mm inconel hardware kit.

If you are patient you can find used FM/Begi manifolds and DPs for cheaper but it might take a while to get a good deal. I've found good usable journal bearing s14 t25 turbos for under $100. Or you can sometimes get the s15 ball bearing turbo for $200-$300 which is the equivalent of a gt2560 ball bearing turbo.

I picked up a FM manifold and DP with gt2560 and oil and water line for under $500 on this forum. Be patient and act fast for a budget turbo build.
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Old 02-19-2015, 05:22 PM   #7
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Artech IS quality... you cant go wrong there...
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Old 02-19-2015, 05:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyotani View Post
by the way, that ebay link kit goes for $960 directly from cx racing unless I'm missing something or they charge $900 for shipping...

cxracing.com: CXRacing Turbo Manifold DownPipe Kit For Mazda Miata MX-5 1.8L NA-T T3 Top Mount

artech makes quality and proven parts. But if you just want a t25/t28 setup with mild goal the FM manifold/DP will support that no problem reliably and is probably more cost effective. If your track racing add trackspeed's 10mm inconel hardware kit.

If you are patient you can find used FM/Begi manifolds and DPs for cheaper but it might take a while to get a good deal. I've found good usable journal bearing s14 t25 turbos for under $100. Or you can sometimes get the s15 ball bearing turbo for $200-$300 which is the equivalent of a gt2560 ball bearing turbo.

I picked up a FM manifold and DP with gt2560 and oil and water line for under $500 on this forum. Be patient and act fast for a budget turbo build.

Thanks for the link. I guess CXRacing just charges a premium for people who use ebay over their site.

I emailed Abe from ARTech and am waiting to get a price back for a downpipe and manifold that fits a t28.

I won't be track racing at all. This is my daily driver. I'm at 6200 elevation surrounded by amazing twisty mountain roads, I just want some more power that will ultimately allow me to enjoy my area that much more.

That's a good deal! I have been lurking this forum for a while but haven't found any deals just yet. I'll continue to check though!
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Old 02-19-2015, 05:37 PM   #9
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To throw another opinion out there, if this is your daily and reliability is paramount (which it should be if it's your daily) and if you plan to install it over a short period of time (weekend) before you go back to work on Monday, I'd say buy the FM no electronics kit. Before you install it, take one weekend and install a megasquirt and get it going and working with some quality injectors. Then buy the FM no electronics kit ($3k) and you're done.

Another option is to have FM leave the intercooler out of their kit. That'll save you a bundle and you can just put in an eBay one.

tbh though, that CXracing kit for $900 ain't bad, or an MKTurbo setup for $1200 ish isn't bad either. Can't believe how bad CXRacing is gouging the ebay customers! Crazy.

Whatever happened to that guy on here who bought the CXracing kit? Did he ever finish it? ....
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Old 02-19-2015, 05:56 PM   #10
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I wish there was a sticky for all this information.
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Old 02-19-2015, 06:02 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
To throw another opinion out there, if this is your daily and reliability is paramount (which it should be if it's your daily) and if you plan to install it over a short period of time (weekend) before you go back to work on Monday, I'd say buy the FM no electronics kit. Before you install it, take one weekend and install a megasquirt and get it going and working with some quality injectors. Then buy the FM no electronics kit ($3k) and you're done.

Another option is to have FM leave the intercooler out of their kit. That'll save you a bundle and you can just put in an eBay one.

tbh though, that CXracing kit for $900 ain't bad, or an MKTurbo setup for $1200 ish isn't bad either. Can't believe how bad CXRacing is gouging the ebay customers! Crazy.

Whatever happened to that guy on here who bought the CXracing kit? Did he ever finish it? ....
Reliability is definitely paramount!

1. CXRacing kit -- $958

2. gt500 injectors -- $270

3. Megaqsuirt PNP -- $799

4. Synapse BOV -- $189

5. 2.5" Black intercooler w/ piping kit -- $161

7. Boost Gauge -- $11 (will upgrade this)

8. EGR block off plate -- $26

total is 2414


1. t28 & FM dp/mani + oil line kit -- $969

2. gt500 injectors -- $270

3. Megaqsuirt PNP -- $799

4. Synapse BOV -- $189

5. 2.5" Black intercooler w/ piping kit -- $161

7. Boost Gauge -- $11 (will upgrade this)

8. EGR block off plate -- $26

total is 2425


The FM no electronics kit + megasquirt is at 3600+

I want to do this and save the most money possible while still putting out around the quoted 265hp for the FM II Hydra setup.




::edit::

I just found these injectors at a good price.

Bosch EV14 52lb/550cc fuel injectors

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Bosch-EV14...589c62&vxp=mtr


1. CXRacing kit -- $958

2. EV14 injectors -- $142

3. Megaqsuirt PNP -- $799

4. Synapse BOV -- $189

5. 2.5" Black intercooler w/ piping kit -- $161

7. Boost Gauge -- $11 (will upgrade this)

8. EGR block off plate -- $26

If these are quality injectors with enough pressure for this build the total is 2286

Last edited by miataa; 02-19-2015 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 02-19-2015, 06:26 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by miataa View Post
Are you talking about Shuiend the user who sells the mxturbo.com turbo kits?
Artech
Firstly it is mkturbo.com not mxturbo.com. Miata Kitty Turbo, or Miata Kswap Turbo, or Miata Kickass Turbo. Not Miata X-ray turbo, or Miata Xylophone turbo. Those last 2 just don't make any sense.

People have given you some very good advice on what you should change and such. I am gong to suggest a few changes and the order in which you should do them in.

First is this your only car? As asked do you have to start on Friday night and having a running car by Monday morning to get to work? If so the FM no electronics kit is what you want. I say this because it is the only kit that will guarantee you have every small piece you need for the car to get done. Yes you can get a Begi, Artech, MKTurbo, or DIY setup and achieve the goal, it is just much much harder. All the big obvious pieces are easy to get. All the small stuff kills you. Do you have enough and correct size t-bolt clamps, how about all the correct couplers, bov flange welded on IC piping in the correct spot, are you oil feed and drain lines correct size, and more and more.

If you have another car you can drive temporarily it makes things much easier and cheaper since you can have more down time. So when you forget one thing or another you can order and wait on them.

For manifolds and down pipes you want FM, Begi, or Artech. I won't even suggest the mkturbo setup unless you want to replace your full exhaust, which I doubt you do. All 3 of those vendors will run you about $750-850 for a new manifold and down pipe. Shipping times will vary, but I would bet FM would be the fastest. Used FM/Begi manifolds and down pipes pop up used all the time. If you can wait for a used one to pop up that is usually cheapest way to get one.

For the turbo you do not want a t25 off a dsm. Flanges are not the standard ones and will not fit the FM/Begi/Artech hardware. If you want to be cheap you find a SR20 T25 which is about the size of a 2554. They run about $75-200 depending on condition and such. All 4 I have bought over a 8 year span have all been $100 a piece. They will put down about 225whp/225ft-lbs of torque with a great powerband for the street. It will also be below the limits of a stock motor.

For the ECU you should go with an MS3X of some sort, either the new ones just released from DIYAutoTune, one of MSLabs, or a Braineack built one. The benefits of the MS3X over the MS2 are enormous and it is worth the extra bucks. This is the computer that controls your engine, with all the money we are saving you elsewhere, don't feel like you need to skimp here. The MS3X is the newest line of MS ecus. It has all the latest features, best hardware, and is getting the active development. The MS2 is one generation older, overall number of features is slightly less usable at once due to less inputs and outputs, no real new software updates, slower older processors. It will get the job done, but if you can get better here you should. I really do think Braineack builds MS3X with PNP harnesses for around $800, but don't hold me to that.

I prefer 2" IC piping over 2.5". Makes routing pipes around AC/PS easier and such. Flow wise the smaller pipes won't change anything.

Now on to the important things. The order of how you should do this.
1. Install the MS and learn how to tune the car naturally aspirated. You will need to learn how to tune, there is a large learning curve. It is much harder to blow up your NA motor then once it is boosted.
2. Install new bigger injectors and retune.
3. Install clutch, but in your case this is already taken care of.
4. Install the turbo setup. Keep boost at wastegate only. Go slowly getting into boost so you can make sure AFR's are good. Make sure you have been using premium fuel for the last several tanks of gas.
5. Tune, Tune, Tune.
6. Turn up boost.
7. Built motor.
8. Bigger Turbo.
9. Go back to NA for track gloriousness.
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Old 02-19-2015, 06:29 PM   #13
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Step #9 is truth.
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Old 02-19-2015, 06:30 PM   #14
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Step #9 is truth.
Somewhere in those steps I forgot to throw in 6UL's and Xida's. Those are also 100% required.
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Old 02-19-2015, 06:34 PM   #15
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Oh noesssssss i'm DOING IT WRONG!
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Old 02-19-2015, 07:28 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
Firstly it is mkturbo.com not mxturbo.com. Miata Kitty Turbo, or Miata Kswap Turbo, or Miata Kickass Turbo. Not Miata X-ray turbo, or Miata Xylophone turbo. Those last 2 just don't make any sense.

People have given you some very good advice on what you should change and such. I am gong to suggest a few changes and the order in which you should do them in.

First is this your only car? As asked do you have to start on Friday night and having a running car by Monday morning to get to work? If so the FM no electronics kit is what you want. I say this because it is the only kit that will guarantee you have every small piece you need for the car to get done. Yes you can get a Begi, Artech, MKTurbo, or DIY setup and achieve the goal, it is just much much harder. All the big obvious pieces are easy to get. All the small stuff kills you. Do you have enough and correct size t-bolt clamps, how about all the correct couplers, bov flange welded on IC piping in the correct spot, are you oil feed and drain lines correct size, and more and more.

If you have another car you can drive temporarily it makes things much easier and cheaper since you can have more down time. So when you forget one thing or another you can order and wait on them.

For manifolds and down pipes you want FM, Begi, or Artech. I won't even suggest the mkturbo setup unless you want to replace your full exhaust, which I doubt you do. All 3 of those vendors will run you about $750-850 for a new manifold and down pipe. Shipping times will vary, but I would bet FM would be the fastest. Used FM/Begi manifolds and down pipes pop up used all the time. If you can wait for a used one to pop up that is usually cheapest way to get one.

For the turbo you do not want a t25 off a dsm. Flanges are not the standard ones and will not fit the FM/Begi/Artech hardware. If you want to be cheap you find a SR20 T25 which is about the size of a 2554. They run about $75-200 depending on condition and such. All 4 I have bought over a 8 year span have all been $100 a piece. They will put down about 225whp/225ft-lbs of torque with a great powerband for the street. It will also be below the limits of a stock motor.

For the ECU you should go with an MS3X of some sort, either the new ones just released from DIYAutoTune, one of MSLabs, or a Braineack built one. The benefits of the MS3X over the MS2 are enormous and it is worth the extra bucks. This is the computer that controls your engine, with all the money we are saving you elsewhere, don't feel like you need to skimp here. The MS3X is the newest line of MS ecus. It has all the latest features, best hardware, and is getting the active development. The MS2 is one generation older, overall number of features is slightly less usable at once due to less inputs and outputs, no real new software updates, slower older processors. It will get the job done, but if you can get better here you should. I really do think Braineack builds MS3X with PNP harnesses for around $800, but don't hold me to that.

I prefer 2" IC piping over 2.5". Makes routing pipes around AC/PS easier and such. Flow wise the smaller pipes won't change anything.

Now on to the important things. The order of how you should do this.
1. Install the MS and learn how to tune the car naturally aspirated. You will need to learn how to tune, there is a large learning curve. It is much harder to blow up your NA motor then once it is boosted.
2. Install new bigger injectors and retune.
3. Install clutch, but in your case this is already taken care of.
4. Install the turbo setup. Keep boost at wastegate only. Go slowly getting into boost so you can make sure AFR's are good. Make sure you have been using premium fuel for the last several tanks of gas.
5. Tune, Tune, Tune.
6. Turn up boost.
7. Built motor.
8. Bigger Turbo.
9. Go back to NA for track gloriousness.

Let me apologize for getting your site wrong. I know you work hard to give the community valuable information, I should have worked harder to get your site correct. www.mkturbo.com

Also, Thank you for giving me the help which was exactly what I needed in a clear and concise way.

My miata is not my only vehicle, I have 2 others which I can drive, so downtime on installs wouldn't be an issue. I have no t-bolt clamps, no couplers, and I am unsure of the size I need for my oil lines as the oil pan was tapped when I bought the car.
If I do need a flange welded onto an IC pipe, I'd have to have a local shop do that.

I had seen Braineacks post on how to DIY a MS, but since it was outdated I didn't think to ask him if he builds and sells MS units. Thank you again for the advice.

So based on your input:

1. t25 from sr20 (I have found one used already) -- $100

2. EV14 injectors -- $142 (will these injectors suffice, or should I go with ID1000's/ID725's?)

3. MS3x (I will politely ask Braineack if he still builds the units and the cost) -- (based on your quote, that you are unsure of) $800

4. Synapse BOV -- $189

5. Intercooler kit --$339 (this has a BOV flange welded on, claims to fit with t25 setup, has 2.5" cold side and 2" hot side piping)

89 05 Mazda Miata MX 5 T25 T28 Intercooler Kit w BOV 93 | eBay

7. Boost Gauge -- $11 (will upgrade this)

8. EGR block off plate -- $26

9. FM mani/dp -- $749

If these are quality injectors with enough pressure for this build the estimated total is around 2356

Keeping in mind I have not included oil lines. Am I missing any other parts I would need for this build?

Following your instructions on what to install first, and learning to tune the MS, is this a good direction to head in?
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Old 02-19-2015, 09:46 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by miataa View Post
2. EV14 injectors -- $142 (will these injectors suffice, or should I go with ID1000's/ID725's?)
The part numbers you quoted for the above injectors, Bosch 0280158117, are listed as 52lb 550cc @ 3bar. Ford racing actually rates them as 47lb 490cc at 3.0 bar

Not sure why the discrepancy.

I'd go with the higher rated Bosch EV14 60lb/630cc fuel injectors #0280158298 here; Bosch 60lb 630cc Fuel Injectors Dodge Neon SRT4 Caliber PT Cruiser 2 4 Turbo | eBay to get a little more injector headroom. Only a little bit more money.

Also, they are a cross over to the actual Ford #DR3Z-9F593-A that started the 550cc EV14 thread.

A good reference; Fuel injectors - S4wiki

Don't forget, you'll need the 12mm extenders (the ones with the 11mm o-ring) here; http://www.ebay.com/itm/270779174540...649&rmvSB=true. DENSO style bottom cushions (order them from "300zxrb26dett" on this site). and 4 adapters for the injector connections here; http://www.ebay.com/itm/EV6-EV14-to-...3D251742632597.

Think I got everything linked...
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Old 02-19-2015, 10:22 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by bahurd View Post
The part numbers you quoted for the above injectors, Bosch 0280158117, are listed as 52lb 550cc @ 3bar. Ford racing actually rates them as 47lb 490cc at 3.0 bar

Not sure why the discrepancy.

I'd go with the higher rated Bosch EV14 60lb/630cc fuel injectors #0280158298 here; Bosch 60lb 630cc Fuel Injectors Dodge Neon SRT4 Caliber PT Cruiser 2 4 Turbo | eBay to get a little more injector headroom. Only a little bit more money.

Also, they are a cross over to the actual Ford #DR3Z-9F593-A that started the 550cc EV14 thread.

A good reference; Fuel injectors - S4wiki

Don't forget, you'll need the 12mm extenders (the ones with the 11mm o-ring) here; 4 12 5mm Fuel Injector Extenders Import Fit New | eBay. DENSO style bottom cushions (order them from "300zxrb26dett" on this site). and 4 adapters for the injector connections here; EV6 EV14 to Nippon Denso Fuel Injector Clips Connectors 1000cc Toyota 2jz 1JZ | eBay.

Think I got everything linked...

Is it the lower seal and pintle cap that I'd need to order from "300zxrb26dett" ? I just rebuilt my stock injectors so would those fit if I removed them from my stock injectors?
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Old 02-19-2015, 10:32 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by miataa View Post
Is it the lower seal and pintle cap that I'd need to order from "300zxrb26dett" ? I just rebuilt my stock injectors so would those fit if I removed them from my stock injectors?
1. Lower seal.

2. They should if they look like this.

Attached Thumbnails
Any advice on building a turbo kit comparable to FM II Hydra from scratch?-denso%2520cushions.png  
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Old 02-20-2015, 12:30 PM   #20
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Carmel Valley, CA
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Probably the most quality newbie diy turbo thread on the internetz. I think the proper use of english and the fact that Miataa isn't a douche has brought out the best advice giving.
I vote for stickying!
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