Any ideas to fix a manifold-to-turbo leak that already has 10mm inconel studs? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 10-10-2011, 03:16 AM   #1
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Question Any ideas to fix a manifold-to-turbo leak that already has 10mm inconel studs?

I completed my turbo installation mid-week and have been cautiously observing and fixing small details. One troublesome issue is that one of the corners between the manifold and turbo is not secured to my liking due to clearance of the nut; it is closest to the oil feed port off of the block. This is with a BEGi 1.8 cast manifold, 10mm inconel studs, new gasket, nuts, and washers from BEGi, and a Garrett SR20 T25G.

I tried loosening the other three nuts in hopes of being able to tighten the fourth, but it simply was not happening. My plans were to just get the sides welded, but after researching the topic here on MT, I realized the difference in metal with the cast iron. Until then, I cannot build boost effectively

Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions? I am really trying to avoid a removal.

Here is a picture of the sight underhood from Friday:


Thanks in advance!
~ALan
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:32 AM   #2
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So you're saying you can't get that nut tight, or are you saying that it's tight but it is still leaking? If it is still leaking and the nut is tight, get the surfaces machined flat.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:38 AM   #3
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It seems and feels like the nut is wedged against the turbine housing preventing further movement. It is threaded on by hand/finger though to the point where its washer still moves around freely. I hope that helps clarify. Thanks for asking!
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Old 10-10-2011, 04:09 AM   #4
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so the nut is hitting the turbine housing preventing you from tightening it?
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Old 10-10-2011, 04:18 AM   #5
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That is what it logically seems like since everything is originally made for 8mm. Here is a picture that I took with my cell phone just now:


You can see the awful gap too.

I am pretty sure that there was enough space with the BEGi downpipe's flange since it threaded on.

//edit// I found this particular post interesting in regards to welding cast iron:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky Bell View Post
Welding cast iron depends strictly on the type of iron. There are two popular irons used for exhaust manifolds; grey iron and ductile iron. While both names are not exactly highly technical and/or descriptive of their characteristics, that is what metalurgy decided to call them.

I know of no way to weld, braze or repair grey iron. The stuff is the cow dung of irons. Ductile iron is a wonderful material... every manifold ever produced by me, is of ductile iron. Ductile iron welds just about as easy as anything else. For an item the size of a 4-cyl manifold there is absolutely no reason to preheat.

Use a stainless or nickel welding rod, clean the area first with an abrasive (drum sander or hand file), and weld away. Use a TIG, of course.

I have bought rods on an individual basis before. If someone needs a few, UPS ships anywhere.

The distinction between grey and ductile is a tough call until you try to weld it. The sparks from a grinder are your best bet on identification. Without the ability to describe it, look up irons on the web.

Worst case condition, send it to me and I can tell with the application of the TIG.
The bottom would be a little b*tch of an inconvenience for my local welder. I am still open to ideas before giving him a ring in the morning.
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Any ideas to fix a manifold-to-turbo leak that already has 10mm inconel studs?-img_20111010_000134.jpg  

Last edited by bboyalan; 10-10-2011 at 06:18 AM. Reason: added info/update
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Old 10-10-2011, 09:15 AM   #6
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There's a trick to getting that nut tight with some manifold/turbo combos.

Try loosening all the turbo-manifold nuts and pull the turbo toward you as you start to tighten that one nut. Once you get it far enough that clearance is no longer an issue you should be able to slap the other 3 nuts on and tighten everything home.

Note, this may not work for you due to the hardware you have but its worth a try. If that doesn't do the trick I'd just hack off a length of the stud and clean up the threads.
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Old 10-10-2011, 02:37 PM   #7
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FWIW I have the same size hardware and had no issues on my 2560. I did have to put that nut on first while pulling the turbo away from the manifold slightly, as vash noted.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:02 PM   #8
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Thanks for the input guys. I spent an hour this morning with my cup of coffee going at it. I have one stubborn b*tch lol. I had rekindled hopes with the additional 1/2-3/4 or so turn, but it just seemed to stop there.



I wonder if having more "wiggle room" when drilling the flange [footprint] would have helped make this easier bleh.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:15 PM   #9
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Is the nut a 14mm or 17mm?


If 17, get a 14. If 14, grind a little off the manifold to clear it
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olderguy View Post
Is the nut a 14mm or 17mm?
To my surprise, it came as a 15mm from BEGi. I had to purchase a "miniature" Kobalt wrench from Lowe's heh.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bboyalan View Post
To my surprise, it came as a 15mm from BEGi. I had to purchase a "miniature" Kobalt wrench from Lowe's heh.
see edit
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:26 PM   #12
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I just might have to try that since welding is looking out of the question right now. Did you mean to say the housing/flange? Also, what do you suggest using? I do have a Dremel rotary tool in my possession. I just do not look forward to removing and reinstalling the -10 AN return and downpipe as those two were not as friendly as the rest.

8mm is looking pretty attractive haha.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:38 PM   #13
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You also do not need to run a gasket between the manifold and turbo. Might want to just take that off.

I had the SR20 T25 and I remember that I had to cut one of the studs shorter then the other 3 when I installed it several years ago. When I switched to my china charger I did not have to cut any studs short.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
You also do not need to run a gasket between the manifold and turbo. Might want to just take that off.

I had the SR20 T25 and I remember that I had to cut one of the studs shorter then the other 3 when I installed it several years ago. When I switched to my china charger I did not have to cut any studs short.
Hey Lars! Hm, interesting. Did you convert to inconel with the T28 or did you shorten one of these studs beforehand? I do not recall seeing a difference unless it was minor. If the latter, perhaps it really is just how my flange's holes were enlarged.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bboyalan View Post
Hey Lars! Hm, interesting. Did you convert to inconel with the T28 or did you shorten one of these studs beforehand? I do not recall seeing a difference unless it was minor. If the latter, perhaps it really is just how my flange's holes were enlarged.
Back when I first installed my BEGI setup in 08 I distinctly remember having to cut one of the stock studs shorter. I honestly do not remember which one it was. These were the stock studs begi sent me, well be people had even started thinking about Inconel studs.

Last fall when I installed the TSE Inconel studs in my manifold I had already switched to a China 2870 and I did not need to cut any studs short.
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Old 10-10-2011, 04:17 PM   #16
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I do have a set of new, plain M10 studs from the mounting kit. Are you suggesting that I extract the inconel [not even going to attempt cutting it] and install a shortened stud in its place?

It looks like all of the possible solutions make removing everything unavoidable, but it has to be done short of a forced upgrade.

//edit// After giving it some thought, I decided not to worry over this for the moment. My secondary intentions were to quickly familiarize myself with this car anyway. I will take care of this and other forced upgrades + maintenance when the 180k+milestone is reached [this was all done at 159,xxx]. My mains are just beginning to show signs of leakage too lol, so it must be a sign to postpone the actual boost. Thanks again to those who chimed in! I am definitely not done here - far from it.

Last edited by bboyalan; 10-10-2011 at 05:11 PM. Reason: added info/update
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Old 10-10-2011, 06:07 PM   #17
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I used bolts instead of studs and nuts. I drilled the bolt heads for safety wire. I've not had any loosening issues.

When a life depends on something not coming loose, the acceptable practice is to safety wire. It doesn't really take that much longer and is kind of fun.

It also sounds like you're not using enough curse words/not yelling loudly enough.
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Old 10-10-2011, 06:21 PM   #18
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LOL! Thanks for the laugh. I did not want to come off as a whiny b*tch... yet anyway Yeah, I prefer bolts too from past turbo swap experiences, but I knew that the fitment here was going to be different. Did you purchase yours from any particular place, such as Ace Hardware? Grade? Length?
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:33 PM   #19
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The ones I used were grade 8.8. I later found a nice selection of grade 10 at an O'Reilly's that I would have preferred. Don't cheap out on the wire -- get inconel. It's the wire that keeps things together (which is probably why I've gotten away with the 8.8 bolts).

Length would depend on your particular turbo. Long enough to get all the way into the manifold, short enough to be inserted into the turbo base. I'm guessing the latter would be your challenge.

Aaand . . . just for inspiration . . . http://justin.justnet.com.au/rudestu...word-****.html.
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Old 10-10-2011, 08:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bboyalan View Post
I just might have to try that since welding is looking out of the question right now. Did you mean to say the housing/flange? Also, what do you suggest using? I do have a Dremel rotary tool in my possession. I just do not look forward to removing and reinstalling the -10 AN return and downpipe as those two were not as friendly as the rest.

8mm is looking pretty attractive haha.
A nut with reduced outside diameter or grind some clearance in the housing so that the points of the nut can pass
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