Any ideas to fix a manifold-to-turbo leak that already has 10mm inconel studs? - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 10-11-2011, 04:12 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by bboyalan View Post

//edit// After giving it some thought, I decided not to worry over this for the moment. My secondary intentions were to quickly familiarize myself with this car anyway. I will take care of this and other forced upgrades + maintenance when the 180k+milestone is reached [this was all done at 159,xxx]. My mains are just beginning to show signs of leakage too lol, so it must be a sign to postpone the actual boost. Thanks again to those who chimed in! I am definitely not done here - far from it.
I wouldn't run the car with that large a leak. You will warp the turbo/manifold flanges, and then you'll never get them to seal properly again unless you remove them all and have everything surfaced.

Loosen the other 3 nuts, then tighten them all evenly. It looks like you're just pinching the nut against the turbine housing because everything else is tightened down already.

If the stud is too long, then that's BEGi's problem - our kit fits perfectly.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:19 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
The ones I used were grade 8.8. I later found a nice selection of grade 10 at an O'Reilly's that I would have preferred. Don't cheap out on the wire -- get inconel. It's the wire that keeps things together (which is probably why I've gotten away with the 8.8 bolts).
100% wrong.

Hornetball, read this thread:
https://www.miataturbo.net/prefabbed-turbo-kits-3/epic-nuts-studs-loosening-thread-reposting-stupid-stuff-without-reading-%3D-warning-35874/

The entire thing, every single post, front to back.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:30 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Loosen the other 3 nuts, then tighten them all evenly. It looks like you're just pinching the nut against the turbine housing because everything else is tightened down already.

If the stud is too long, then that's BEGi's problem - our kit fits perfectly.
I have already attempted this two or three times with no dice. The 15mm nut gets stuck against the housing, so there is no point wasting my time and energy beating a dead horse here. I appreciate your input though but cannot blame anyone or anything really... well except maybe the studs and/or nut lol.

ANYWAY, my turbo's bearings just sh*t the bed thanks to excessively held load when needed to get over inclines and the like. I am trying to source another Garrett T25/T28 and have inquired about an S15 GT28R locally. There is also a Godspeed T28 available on CL, but I am trying to steer clear of that for now if possible even though people have had their successes with ChinaChargers - was simply never a fan really. I am just trying to plan out how to approach the flange/stud/manifold situation this time since I can only afford to do this one more time; everyone's advice thus far is being taken into consideration. Luckily, the SR20 turbos should allow me to re-use my -3IF oil feed and the rest of the fittings; I believe anything else requires ordering a different one.

hornetball - I knew that your SN looked familiar. I enjoyed reading your build thread a month or two ago.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:51 PM   #24
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I have already attempted this two or three times with no dice. The 15mm nut gets stuck against the housing, so there is no point wasting my time and energy beating a dead horse here.
Except if the horse isn't dead - the pictures you've posted pretty clearly show that the nut is being caught on the rear edge by the housing. If you loosen the other 3 fully and slide the turbo back, that will free the housing from the nut and you can tighten it down from there.

The only other way would be if the flange of the nut were being caught by the turbo, but there's a washer in there that has a larger OD so that's clearly not the case.

Either that or you've galled the threads and the nut is locked up tight, which makes it seem like the turbine housing is still hitting it.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:54 PM   #25
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100% wrong.

Hornetball, read this thread:
https://www.miataturbo.net/showthread.php?t=35874

The entire thing, every single post, front to back.
I've tried to read that thread a few times. Just don't have the time -- it's too long. Would be nice if someone would sticky a summary of the conclusions . . . kind of like the suspension hierarchy where you can go to the end and get rankings.

Don't dispute that I'm wrong. Just ask my wife.
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Old 10-11-2011, 05:08 PM   #26
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You might be correct, but the verdict will have to wait for when I remove it and play around again. Depending on how soon I can source a replacement locally, I will have time either tonight or Thursday night after classes.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:15 PM   #27
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100% wrong.

Hornetball, read this thread:
https://www.miataturbo.net/showthread.php?t=35874

The entire thing, every single post, front to back.
Well, OK, I went and poked around some more. I saw this quote from a guy named Savington . . . do you know him?

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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Mike, it's a lot of work but what you can do is remove the turbo and manifold, get the hardware re-installed and snug, and then drill it all for safety wire. It will still leak a little, but you'll be able to run full sessions.
Perhaps your objection is the recommendation of 8.8 or 10.9 bolts rather than Inconel studs. Rest assured, I would not run nor recommend 8.8/10.9 for the track. I'm with you there. However, my 8.8's are holding up well for street and some auto-x. I've put a ton of miles on with no issues. I should have asked whether OP was intending to track the car. My bad.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:28 PM   #28
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damn 2 pages of posts on how to tighten 1 bolt.
damn.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:53 PM   #29
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damn 2 pages of posts on how to tighten 1 bolt.
damn.
...and your one post calling a nut a bolt

Yes, anyone would be correct in presuming that I have no intentions on tracking this car. The manifold came with these studs already in place, so that was not my unnecessary decision.
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Old 10-12-2011, 09:07 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by bboyalan View Post
...and your one post calling a nut a bolt

Yes, anyone would be correct in presuming that I have no intentions on tracking this car. The manifold came with these studs already in place, so that was not my unnecessary decision.
Right. You proved it
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:06 AM   #31
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If the stud is too long, then that's BEGi's problem - our kit fits perfectly.
I just realized bboyalan has my old manifold and downpipe. So it is a Begi manifold with the TSE studs. I had them working fine with a China 2871. Although I do think I had to get them all started with the turbo apart from the manifold and then slowly tighten them all down one at a time.

I honestly would not try to remove the studs. I resbonded them in around this time last year. I would say to take the manifold with you if you are picking up a turbo locally. This way you can try and make sure it fits before you buy it.
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:08 AM   #32
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Then it's definitely a case of having tightened the nuts unevenly. You've gotta tighten everything evenly or else the housing will bind up on one of the nuts.
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:14 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by MartinezA92 View Post
FWIW I have the same size hardware and had no issues on my 2560. I did have to put that nut on first while pulling the turbo away from the manifold slightly, as vash noted.
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Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
I just realized bboyalan has my old manifold and downpipe. So it is a Begi manifold with the TSE studs. I had them working fine with a China 2871. Although I do think I had to get them all started with the turbo apart from the manifold and then slowly tighten them all down one at a time.

I honestly would not try to remove the studs. I resbonded them in around this time last year. I would say to take the manifold with you if you are picking up a turbo locally. This way you can try and make sure it fits before you buy it.
And that is definitely not one of the nuts we supply with the kit. You may have better luck (clearance) with a different nut.
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:40 AM   #34
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Well, OK, I went and poked around some more. I saw this quote from a guy named Savington . . . do you know him?
He's a *****.

Quote:
Perhaps your objection is the recommendation of 8.8 or 10.9 bolts rather than Inconel studs. Rest assured, I would not run nor recommend 8.8/10.9 for the track. I'm with you there. However, my 8.8's are holding up well for street and some auto-x. I've put a ton of miles on with no issues. I should have asked whether OP was intending to track the car. My bad.
My objection was actually to your characterization of safety wire being the final solution. The problem isn't that the hardware comes loose - it's actually an issue with the steel becoming so hot that it deforms/creeps, which reduces the preload on the fastener to zero, and then a little vibration spins it right out.

The wire doesn't keep it all together - it may stop the fasteners from turning, but that doesn't mean they won't elongate and cause a leak anyway.

The basic synopsis of the stud thread is that it's a metallurgy issue and not a fastener issue, so regardless of what solution you use to keep the fasteners from rotating, you have to address the weakness in the fastener itself.
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:29 AM   #35
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And that is definitely not one of the nuts we supply with the kit. You may have better luck (clearance) with a different nut.
After looking at the picture he posted again of the close up I have to agree that he is not using the nuts you originally sent me. I sent him all the parts I originally got, except for new c-clips, the old ones were destroyed when I removed them so I bought new ones to send out.
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Old 10-13-2011, 05:32 AM   #36
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Ah, are these the "correct" nuts supplied by TSE accordingly? I honestly thought that they were just miscellaneous used bits with the others. They also measure 15mm but have a slightly smaller head. The unused BEGi standard 10mm studs accepted them easily as expected.



I left the car at home today and will do the same tomorrow because of the current turbo's condition in addition to [what I believe to be] the mains pissing themselves as mentioned earlier. I am planning on tearing into the car tomorrow night and temporarily reverting to "stock"/naturally aspirated. Hopefully my -10 AN plug arrives by Friday too. A reassessment just sounds like a good idea before investing in another turbo so soon; a select few are in sight though!
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Any ideas to fix a manifold-to-turbo leak that already has 10mm inconel studs?-img_20111013_004727.jpg  
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:08 AM   #37
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^^^

Those look like the stage 8 nuts and I think that's what TSE sends with their kits as well.

You should have better luck using them.
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:58 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by bboyalan View Post
Ah, are these the "correct" nuts supplied by TSE accordingly? I honestly thought that they were just miscellaneous used bits with the others. They also measure 15mm but have a slightly smaller head. The unused BEGi standard 10mm studs accepted them easily as expected.



I left the car at home today and will do the same tomorrow because of the current turbo's condition in addition to [what I believe to be] the mains pissing themselves as mentioned earlier. I am planning on tearing into the car tomorrow night and temporarily reverting to "stock"/naturally aspirated. Hopefully my -10 AN plug arrives by Friday too. A reassessment just sounds like a good idea before investing in another turbo so soon; a select few are in sight though!
Those would be the ones that TSE sends out. Basically you install those, then put the locking clip over and then the c-clip. That makes it so that the nut can not back off itself. Between those and the Inconel studs there should be absolutely no problems of the manifold and turbo separating.
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Old 10-14-2011, 06:22 AM   #39
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Just to bring a little closure to this thread, here is how it looked when I tried threading it again with the parts removed from the car:


This is the flange sitting on top of the manifold slightly tilted.


This is as far as it will go with the turbo pulled back, wiggled, whatever.

If you look closely, you can somewhat see the section of the housing above and behind the washer that causes the fitment issue. That is what it looks like to me anyway.

I will be posting in the classifieds now and later again today to help recoup my costs, so hopefully there is some interest.
Attached Thumbnails
Any ideas to fix a manifold-to-turbo leak that already has 10mm inconel studs?-img_20111014_003019.jpg   Any ideas to fix a manifold-to-turbo leak that already has 10mm inconel studs?-img_20111014_003423.jpg  
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:01 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by bboyalan View Post
Just to bring a little closure to this thread, here is how it looked when I tried threading it again with the parts removed from the car:


This is the flange sitting on top of the manifold slightly tilted.


This is as far as it will go with the turbo pulled back, wiggled, whatever.

If you look closely, you can somewhat see the section of the housing above and behind the washer that causes the fitment issue. That is what it looks like to me anyway.

I will be posting in the classifieds now and later again today to help recoup my costs, so hopefully there is some interest.
Is that the only stud that is hitting and will not allow the but to go down? If you have a local ACE hardware around you could probably go there and pick up a few extra studs. I would try cutting that one stud a few threads shorter and seeing if you can get the nut to go down.

This is going to be a street car correct and not a track car you should be fine running normal studs and nuts on the car. I ran like that for 3 years without an issue of stretching. This way you could just sale the Inconel studs and not be out as much money.

I am also very sorry that the studs are not working for you. I honestly did not have my old SR20 T25 when I installed the Inconel studs so I had no way to test them. Had I known one would be to long I would have been up front about it.
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