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Old 05-02-2008, 09:19 AM   #1
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Default Buy kit or DIY comparision

I have a 99 and I was thinking the other day.. Would it have saved me the headache and money if I woulda bought a kit? Here's the direction I went...
T25 from SR20DET from e-bay $200, rebuild kit from g-pop shop $80, different flanged compressor $70, Oil feed line kit from FM $50?, FM SS DP and turbine outlet $420?, FM Manifold $425?, Voo Doo Box new $420?, timing wheel $30?, old style FMII intercooler off of somebody elses miata on e-bay with all piping and BOV $200, FM airbox and compressor inlet hose $100?
Total underhood investment $2000 approx.
Cost of Voo-doo II kit $3400 approx.
So I guess I can take the $1400 I saved and buy a megasquirt and a clutch!
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Old 05-02-2008, 09:34 AM   #2
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Sounds like you've got it all figured out. Keep us updated.
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Old 05-02-2008, 10:36 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdgen View Post
I have a 99 and I was thinking the other day.. Would it have saved me the headache and money if I woulda bought a kit? Here's the direction I went...
T25 from SR20DET from e-bay $200, different flanged compressor $70, Oil feed line kit from FM $50?, FM SS DP and turbine outlet $420?, FM Manifold $425?, Voo Doo Box new $420?, timing wheel $30?
The parts that I quoted above could have been purchased cheaper or substituted with cheaper parts. Overall, I'd agree that you did fine and save some substantial $$$. The important part is that you got all the stuff and didn't quit the project halfway or something.

But if you would have given 10% more effort in researching parts you could have saved a few hundred more buy going with BEGi for manifold and/or downpipe, megasquirt with NA CAS instead of VoodooBox and Timingwheel, and probably got the oil feed line for a bit cheaper.
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Old 05-02-2008, 11:14 AM   #4
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My DIY kit totals 2500 bucks right now, and thats to the last penny I spent on the car since I started. I can post my breakdown for everything, if youre curious.

Would I have paid more for peace of mind and less headache if I knew in advance I was gonna run into so much **** along the way? ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY.

The only thing that consoles me is the fact that I assembled all the parts myself and know the **** inside and out, moreso then a person just buying a kit.

Right now, since all the problems are sorted I feel much happier going with the DIY way, but if I had any less time in my normal life this would have never been a DIY approach.
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Old 05-02-2008, 11:33 AM   #5
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no one can tell you if DIY route is ebtter for you, that's something you figure out on your own...
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Old 05-02-2008, 11:39 AM   #6
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It's all pink on the inside.
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Old 05-02-2008, 02:44 PM   #7
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I think that if you do your research, a DIY can be as problem free as a kit. Think of the Begi-S, get all the same parts while sourcing it cheaper. I believe the main reason why the begi is higher priced then the DIY route is the ~$800 new turbo they include. What do i know, im still piecing mine together.
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Old 05-02-2008, 03:50 PM   #8
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My DIY cost me much more than a regular kit, but I've learned a ton and nobody makes the type of bolt-on kit that I wanted. Just remember, if you have to do several builds to get to your final goal, it will cost you way more in the long run than spending the cash to do it all right the first time.
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Old 05-02-2008, 04:01 PM   #9
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Plus one-no one has what I want, so I gotta make it myself
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Old 05-02-2008, 04:38 PM   #10
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You should have forgone the Voodoo box and bought a Megasquirt and LC1 for the same price to begin with. It's retarded that Fm charges $450 for that thing. Even EMB does 5 times as much and is less.

How much boost are your running and what kinda power is it making. Please tell me you've had it on the dyno and "tuned" the Voodoo?
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Old 05-02-2008, 04:49 PM   #11
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I am running 7psi with a 12:1 a/f (I have an LC-1 to monitor that) and my voo-doo box is maxed out btw, but I have my timing advanced back to stock (10 degrees BTDC) So for no timing retard and 7psi with a perfect A/F I can't complain, it rips for now. I do agree with you saying I shoulda saved my money from the voo-doo and went MS. Also, I didn't dyno tune it...I played it by ear and the LC-1.
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Old 05-02-2008, 05:54 PM   #12
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I waffled for a while and then decided I would DIY. Mine is a bit simpler than yours but will come out for a bit less $

T-25 $200 shipped
BEGI T25 Downpipe $191 shipped, ebay via Saml01
FMU (not purchased, but readily available used for $100 shipped)
Pierburg (bought here a few months ago for $70 shipped)
Manifold (flanges purchased $44 shipped, need weldels, probably another $70 shipped)
Oil line (needed, less than $50)
Charge piping and couplers, (no IC now) probably $100 shipped
Misc $100
Stock cat back for now. Retarded timing for now.

So I should be at 6 psi for just under $1000 for everything, including shipping.

Anyone see any glaring omissions?

Later I will add IC, clutch, MS, injectors, exhaust as a second stage.

The only thing I will have spent $ on that won't be used in the second stage is the FMU, but if I buy used for $100, I can turn that for no loss, except shipping.
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Old 05-02-2008, 07:07 PM   #13
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I think theres a BEGI FMU for sale in the parts section, may want to look now.

As for your estimate, they are never accurate, its gonna be more. Your best bet to keep money down is to set a budget and try to stay under it and if you go over it try to not go to far. My budget was pegged at 1800(begi S kit). I am in 2500 right now for everything I have which is a lot more then the Begi kit.
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Old 05-02-2008, 08:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stein View Post
I waffled for a while and then decided I would DIY. Mine is a bit simpler than yours but will come out for a bit less $

T-25 $200 shipped
BEGI T25 Downpipe $191 shipped, ebay via Saml01
FMU (not purchased, but readily available used for $100 shipped)
Pierburg (bought here a few months ago for $70 shipped)
Manifold (flanges purchased $44 shipped, need weldels, probably another $70 shipped)
Oil line (needed, less than $50)
Charge piping and couplers, (no IC now) probably $100 shipped
Misc $100
Stock cat back for now. Retarded timing for now.

So I should be at 6 psi for just under $1000 for everything, including shipping.

Anyone see any glaring omissions?

Later I will add IC, clutch, MS, injectors, exhaust as a second stage.

The only thing I will have spent $ on that won't be used in the second stage is the FMU, but if I buy used for $100, I can turn that for no loss, except shipping.
Stein, how are you retarding timing?
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Old 05-03-2008, 12:57 AM   #15
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Quote:
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Stein, how are you retarding timing?
Crap. I forgot I can't do that now that I have an NB. I guess I don't know. Bipes? Any suggestions?
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Old 05-03-2008, 01:06 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stein View Post
Crap. I forgot I can't do that now that I have an NB. I guess I don't know. Bipes? Any suggestions?
Suggestion: Megasquirt. Bipes doesn't work on 99+. You can modify the stock crank wheel to retard timing but then it's gonna suck when driving it out of boost and hurt mileage, etc. The car has super conservative spark stock. Hell you could run 200-220 whp with the stock timing I bet if fuel is right and you have a good IC. FWIW I spray a 100 shot on my 99 with stock timing curve and it does fine. I'd say 200 whp is easy on stock timing. I'm around 220 whp with the nitrous.
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Old 05-03-2008, 01:14 AM   #17
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ARGH!!! OK, that did it. I just asked Chad to go ahead with a MS build. At least I can get it going on the stock car to eliminate problems first. I know I will be happier this way, now that I bit the bullet. Good thing I hadn't bought an FMU yet.
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Old 05-03-2008, 10:46 AM   #18
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You will be glad you did. The MS is a great toy and will do the job very well. Just remember you will need to do some tuning but if you have a wideband O2 sensor this is pretty easy to do with Megalogviewer and a lap top. Log, tune, log, tune....

I modified a old 70s Honda way back before modding Hondas was cool so I have tuned cars the old school way: no wideband O2 sensor, Weber carburetors, jet swaps, chop-the-throttle plug readings, etc. etc... A programmable ECU (MS) with datalogging and a WBO2 is just soooooooo much better.
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Old 05-03-2008, 10:50 AM   #19
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Yeah, I need to add a WB O2. Wait, didn't I just say I was getting this done for $1000 about three posts ago? I'm over $1700 since then.
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Old 05-04-2008, 12:53 PM   #20
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Default 235 rwhp

So now that you see my setup, I figure I am running in the 185-190 hp range? So what would it take to put out 235 to the wheels? I know I'd have to sell my voo-doo box and switch to MS...so is that it? A MS and injectors with a boost controller?
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