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Old 03-08-2009, 08:48 PM   #1
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Default Charge cooling and some info on my Mazda

Hi,

First of all I am new to this site and have spent the past few evenings stuck to my computer reading the mass of interesting information !!!

Am I right in thinking the 2005 cosworth miata used an "air/water" intercooler ?

I saw this link in another discussion - Brightning Corp and wondered if that was the OE chargecooler in the pic.

I am currently in the final stages of designing my "air/water" intercooler system for my 1994 1.8 (which i have swapped a 1999 motor into). After getting the car something like how I want it (brakes suspension etc) Its time for some forced induction

Its now halfway thru its second major teardown and this time she's getting a paint job too.

Here is my cooler








I also have 2 x 12v water pumps and plan on using the a/c radiator as a heat exchanger. (with some extra trickery)

The car



New rotors fitted with Mintex "Extreme" pads


Before motor swap


The first teardown and rebuild (Dec 2007)

Old motor being removed


Motor out


60k mile 1999 replacement motor


Super clutch !


Manifold wrapped !


Gearbox cleaned


Almost ready to put this lump back in the car


After motor swap


All done ! (BBS split rims removed for refurb)


And this is what happens when you bottom out at 70mph


Replacing the Torsen...


And this is what happens if your air filter is not secured properly


The 2nd teardown begins !




Note the new washer fluid bottle !


Will

Cornwall
England
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Old 03-08-2009, 08:55 PM   #2
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Oh yeah, here I am having a play with the new engine !!!



>
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Old 03-08-2009, 08:57 PM   #3
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Welcome aboard Will.

You should've started this thread in the "supercharger" section. You'd get more help there.

FWIW, I don't know of any member using W/A intercooler.
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:05 PM   #4
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Thanks for the welcome,

I am very surprised to hear that nobody is using air/water setups

well, you can all see how I get on with it then I suppose.

Here is what inspired me - I saw this and thought about how short the pipework from the turbo to the inlet is - I like that idea !...


I will be custom building my turbo kit over the next year (i take my time).
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Old 03-08-2009, 11:20 PM   #5
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In the meantime; if I were in your shoes, I'd seriously consider getting WI.

If you need additional info on superchargers, I suggest you get in touch with "formerdatsunman" (Bill knows his **** when it comes to superchargers).

BTW, nice ride.
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Old 03-08-2009, 11:33 PM   #6
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And that guy whos Miata inspired you has a FMIC now.

Good luck with build, but you should really reconsider on that watercooler idea.
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Old 03-09-2009, 12:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa View Post
Welcome aboard Will.

You should've started this thread in the "supercharger" section. You'd get more help there.

FWIW, I don't know of any member using W/A intercooler.


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Old 03-09-2009, 04:06 PM   #8
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I'm not going to be using a supercharger !!!
And yes water injection is also on the cards already

I'm planning on a GT28rs !

I think I know why you are confused, when I say "charge" I mean compressed air from turbo. I just thought I would clear that up hehe

I also plan on running the interior heaters from the chargecooler fluid to increase the water capacity. Its only a weekend toy which doesnt get used in winter and I usually have the roof down anyhow so dont mind leaving the heaters blasting the screen when temps get up.

Pretty much the only thing I havent decided on yet is an engine management system.
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Old 03-09-2009, 04:08 PM   #9
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Oh and the reason I linked to the supercharger pic is because i thought

"If the water/air intercooler is good enough for cosworth, it's good enough for me"



I will upload my full turbo kit design when I have transfered it from a bunch of scribbles on paper to my computer !
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Old 03-09-2009, 09:58 PM   #10
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Lightbulb Plan

OK, here is a quick'ish sum up of my turbo plan.

My goal is to have a weekend car eventually capable of producing 300whp (maximum) but to run it at around 200-225whp untill I build my motor.

Response is something which matters to me, hence the;

short boost pipes
custom itb inlet
equal length split pulse exh manifold
3" seperated downpipe
extreme thermal management
freeflow cold air inlet
turbo choice (GT28RS)

(could go smaller with the turbo for response but would rather make it up elsewhere and still make good hp top end with a mid range sized turbo)

I have looked at all of these aspects for their help with spool/response. Obviously this will not fully give the desired effect on a standard motor with an MSD timing box but before i can build one and get good engine management, I want to perfect the turbo setup as much as possible.

Its quick and basic summary in the grand scheme of things, and my first turbo car/turbo system design and I would appreciate any feedback or pointers. Dont worry - you wont hurt my feelings and I appreaciate I may be wrong on much of this theory so fire away .

The main problem I seem to have is finding a turbo which meets my demands and the intake manifold design (particularly plenum volume and runner length).

The "Disco potato" (GT28RS) has ideal flow capabilities and good spool with its duel ball bearings as far as i can tell but doesnt seem to have "ext wastegate" or "twin entry" as an option. I maybe wrong ? Hopefully !!!

The external wastegate turbo's seem to have a much better shaped area (where the downpipe connects to the turbo) in terms of flow causing no turbulance if that makes sense !?!?! probably not !

Anyway its 00:58am here and I gotta stop thinking about boosted miata's and go to sleep (unfortunately!) or I wont have a job to buy all these nice shiny things

many thanks for reading and I look forward to hearing input from people with miata turbo experience/interest.

Will

theres also some more vids of my car here if you'r interested - YouTube - williamjamesfrost's Channel
Attached Files
File Type: xls Na8c turbo kit.xls (20.5 KB, 90 views)
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richyvrlimited View Post


Hi, is that your car !?, i see its right hand drive...

looks very nice Where is your washer bottle relocated to ?

thanks
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:43 PM   #12
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I run a PWR barrel on my Protege (same 1.8BP as in the Miata), and it has worked great on the street and track.

--Ferdi
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Old 03-10-2009, 06:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftnething View Post
Hi, is that your car !?, i see its right hand drive...

looks very nice Where is your washer bottle relocated to ?

thanks
Certainly is... the Washer bottle is under the slam panel, the OEM fits.... just!

There is an ABS version which fits perfectly in that location btw
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Old 03-10-2009, 03:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ftjandra View Post
I run a PWR barrel on my Protege (same 1.8BP as in the Miata), and it has worked great on the street and track.

--Ferdi
wahoo great, glad to hear it, what size is your barrel ? I have 6" x 8"
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Old 03-10-2009, 03:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richyvrlimited View Post
Certainly is... the Washer bottle is under the slam panel, the OEM fits.... just!

There is an ABS version which fits perfectly in that location btw
thats cool (excuse the pun !), what kind of boost are you running and how do you keep an eye on your temp ?
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Old 03-10-2009, 04:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftnething View Post
wahoo great, glad to hear it, what size is your barrel ? I have 6" x 8"
I have the 6"x10". It seems to handle ~350whp just fine.

--Ferdi
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Old 03-10-2009, 04:21 PM   #17
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Ok thats great news, mine should be fine for 300 then

do you have any pics of your setup ?

thanks
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Old 03-10-2009, 04:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftnething View Post
Ok thats great news, mine should be fine for 300 then

do you have any pics of your setup ?

thanks
Like I said, it's in a Protege. Yeah, I know it's cramped in there .


(Pic courtesy of RotorNutFD3S)

--Ferdi
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftnething View Post
thats cool (excuse the pun !), what kind of boost are you running and how do you keep an eye on your temp ?
Via my MegaSquirt IAT sensor boost is 11psi peak, but that's when the VE goes to ****, around peak torque - 6500rpm it's more like 8psi.

when my A/W WP failled I saw IAT's of over 100DegC, with the A/W setup working properly it's half that.
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Old 03-17-2009, 04:59 PM   #20
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thanks for the info

I am now wondereing about the speed of which the water is pushed around the system ? I'm thinking too slow might lead to a build up of heat in the cooler and too fast might not give optimum heat exchanging ?

By the way Ferdi - thanks for the pic it looks really good Can you get aftermarket inlet manifolds for the protege ?
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