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Old 04-14-2015, 11:04 AM   #1
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Default ChinaCharger question

... a subject beat to death more than once.

So a little background. I bought (a few years ago) a DSM 14b turbo, that very I successfully installed in my '92. However, I have fallen victim to the s**tty ebay cracked manifold. I'm tired of fabricating/welding/hacking manifolds/downpipes to work. I know I need a new manifold, and I will be getting cast iron, from someplace other than ebay... fool me once...

Now, Since a cast manifold is clocked differently than the one i have, I'll need a new DP. Good news because I had to hack and reweld the one i have to work. If I have to get a new mani and DP, I'll probably get a new turbo... standard garrett t25 5-bolt flange. I'm leaning towards the chinacharger from Bell. I can't see spending $1,200 on an authentic Garrett to slap in a car I paid $3k for 8 years ago. Here in lies the question.

I've read very mixed reviews on the China turbo's. Bell sells "chinachargers" for 350/475. I can't imagine a very reputable place like Bell would sell the same crap you can get on ebay for ~$200... I've also read that the China turbo's (this may be isolated to the ~$200 ebay ones) that the t25 flange isn't quite the same as the standard garrett t25. I've sent Bell an email yesterday, but haven't heard back.

I'm probably going to get the FM cast manifold, cast turbo outlet/DP combo, and a Bell Chinacharger. But, I'm concerned on fitment of the turbo to the DP. Anyone have any experience?

~Mike
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Old 04-14-2015, 11:16 AM   #2
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You don't want the ChinaCharger that Begi sells. It has crappy spool on a 1.8, and it will be even worse on a 1.6. I have honestly not found any t25 china chargers that have decent spool and would consider using. If you want to go cheap and stick to T25's then get one off a Nissan 240 for about $100-150.

If you are on a budget, and not in a huge hurry, I should have MKTurbo setups for the 1.6 sometime in the next few months.
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Old 04-14-2015, 11:23 AM   #3
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If you're going to buy a chinacharger spec one with a 5 bolt to 2.5" V-Band outlet. Gives you some options later.

You can find used/rebuilt Garrett T25 units as well if you're concerned with 'real' bolt patterns: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Garr...5e9ab4&vxp=mtr
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Old 04-14-2015, 02:11 PM   #4
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Ebay cast 1.6 manifolds are fine, but they only come T3 and they are probably still sold out.

You are crazy if you think bell doesn't slap a 100% markup on parts they don't even touch. They have the same return policy as the Chinese manufacturer, it's pretty disturbing if you ask me. What value are they adding, exactly?

Bell is not a reputable place IMO.
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Old 04-14-2015, 03:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
Ebay cast 1.6 manifolds are fine, but they only come T3 and they are probably still sold out.

You are crazy if you think bell doesn't slap a 100% markup on parts they don't even touch. They have the same return policy as the Chinese manufacturer, it's pretty disturbing if you ask me. What value are they adding, exactly?

Bell is not a reputable place IMO.
I will second the TacoTaco 1.6 cast manifolds as being decent, just no ETA on when they will be back in stock. If they were readily available I would honestly just use it for the MKTurbo 1.6 setup to save myself work.
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Old 04-14-2015, 07:38 PM   #6
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I paid $700 for a new ball bearing t28 (GT2560) I used to have the china 2870 on my 1.8. I definitely feel just as fast at 6-7psi and the response difference is massive.

Advice from someone that had your same mentality and fucked things up and had to do them over again search for t28 on sylvia.net. Also, you could look for a journal t28, they sale for about $300.
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Old 04-15-2015, 05:42 PM   #7
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I've been running the begi china 2854 since 2012, it holds up well, has taken a lot of track and auto-x abuse without any problems apart from the actuator going bad (I run inconel hardware). But as others have said, it spools terribly compared to garret units. It starts building boost early, but boost ramp up is a lot slower than the real deal.
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Old 04-15-2015, 08:32 PM   #8
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Thanks all for the comments suggestions.

Shuiend,
I am curious and interested in your kit, however, I'll be moving on June 4th. Car must be up and running before then. I don't want to have to have it towed, and I don't want to drive it with a cracked manifold. I'm no mechanic, but something tells me bits of metal blown through your engine are a bad thing (however I'm sure they'd get stopped in the intercooler, but who wants to take that chance).

I did hear back from the people at Bell. Here's the response...

"We have our own flanges we have water jet cut per our specs. That could be why we don’t have problems and other do… (I had asked about the fitment issues some had seen with the china t25 flange mounting to a standard t25 downpipe). The turbo we use is probably the same one as on eBay. I have not looked lately, sorry. However, we take care of the altering and machining for you. We enlarge the turbine inlet holes to fit the 10 mm studs, we weld in a baffle for the separated gases downpipe, we convert the inlet and outlet to a tube mount instead of a flange mount, we also ID the oil inlet size needed, clock the turbo, and mount an appropriate WG actuator. Roughly 1.5 hours of work and $70 of parts. That is why ours costs more – because we send it ready to install and you don’t have to modify it."

Worth an extra $150? I don't know, probably. Seems like they take a marginal product and make it as good as it could be. I've also been reading good thing about the GodSpeed Disco Potato. Decisions, decisions...

~Mike
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Old 04-21-2015, 09:54 AM   #9
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Parts ordered. Went with the FM cast manifol, cast outlet, and stainless down pipe.

Also ordered a China Charger from Begi. Seems they put a lot of work/parts into a cheap turbo, and make it relatively reliable. Not saying it'll outlast, or be as good as a genuine garrett, but... for a grand less, I'll give it a shot.

I have a hard time believing it'll perform any worse than the DSM 14b that I used to have. That didn't spool until 4k RPM. Maybe that was because of the crap ebay manifold/downpipe... maybe it was the turbo... maybe that's just were it's supposed to spool. Either way, it was a heluva lot of fun above 4k. And hey... 1.6's love to rev.
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Old 04-22-2015, 12:08 PM   #10
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Doesn't Begi just resell the ChinaChargers? Do they actually do anything to them?
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Old 04-22-2015, 12:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huesmann View Post
Doesn't Begi just resell the ChinaChargers? Do they actually do anything to them?
Do you even read bro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo_js00 View Post
I did hear back from the people at Bell. Here's the response...

"We have our own flanges we have water jet cut per our specs. That could be why we don’t have problems and other do… (I had asked about the fitment issues some had seen with the china t25 flange mounting to a standard t25 downpipe). The turbo we use is probably the same one as on eBay. I have not looked lately, sorry. However, we take care of the altering and machining for you. We enlarge the turbine inlet holes to fit the 10 mm studs, we weld in a baffle for the separated gases downpipe, we convert the inlet and outlet to a tube mount instead of a flange mount, we also ID the oil inlet size needed, clock the turbo, and mount an appropriate WG actuator. Roughly 1.5 hours of work and $70 of parts. That is why ours costs more – because we send it ready to install and you don’t have to modify it."

Worth an extra $150? I don't know, probably. Seems like they take a marginal product and make it as good as it could be.
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Old 04-22-2015, 12:41 PM   #12
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Boy, don't I have honey on my face!
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Old 04-22-2015, 01:05 PM   #13
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the spool on the china 2854 is a joke at best.
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Old 04-22-2015, 02:25 PM   #14
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HAHAHA what an awesome way to fail

you will soon be part of the statistic. good job
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