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Old 04-08-2011, 11:17 PM   #1
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Default COPs project, starting / idle issues.

I figured I would start a new thread instead of hijack the other COPs thread. I just wired some COPs up for my 95 with a 2.6 hydra. I have the clips, cops, and a bracket to torque down with.

I am having a few issues. I started with a rough idle / start, that was last night. Today I finished up my harness and attempted to start the car, three failed starts. I got the car warm with my stock coils and after I was confident it was running fine I swapped the harness over for the COPs and started the car. Low and behold, it started! But it ran rough, as if it was on 3 cylinders. To test it, I pulled plug 1, it ran the same. I plugged it back in and then pulled 4. In both cases the car sounded like it ran fine, and pulling 2 or 3 (center plugs) resulted in it dying. After testing with a multimeter to check for continuity in the wires (it was all there) and checking for Ohms, we found no fault with the harness.

I then checked each individual COP using the multimeter and low and behold, one of them was not the same as the others as far as Ohms between +12 and GND. I was getting about 120 more on 2,000 ohm setting. For kicks we plugged it all back in and started it, and low and behold it runs FINE. I swapped that one that was off for another plug I have on hand and it ran fine as well. Well, I just went back out and tried to start it again to go for a drive, and now it wont start again.

I'm not sure, but it seems to run fine AFTER I get the car warm, not sure what's going on there. As for dwell time, does what I have posted below look correct? I'm not sure if this is the right setting in the Hydra app. And no, I do not have a cap on my harness yet.



I'm at a loss as to what could be going on.
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Old 04-09-2011, 04:36 PM   #2
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Car wouldn't start last night, so I plugged in the stock coils and got it to operating temp. I then swapped in the COPs again and it still wouldn't start, after moving coils around and plugging everything back in it started and ran great, I drove on the freeway and got excellent performance. I then parked it last night, did not touch anything other then the key, and went out this morning to find it wont start again..

I'm thinking I might have a bad coil, does anyone know the Ohm values off the plugs and what the acceptable ranges are?
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Old 04-09-2011, 10:41 PM   #3
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I believe I have figured it out. I have 5 COPs total, 4 I bought off the classifieds here, 1 I got with my bracket. It appears that of the 4 I got off the classifieds, only ONE was in perfect running order. The other three were very weak and intermittent. I tested this using a spark checker tool, 1-3 were nearly dead and 4 was working great.

To eliminate any possiblity of contamination by moving the tool or possibly the wiring, I tested all four plugs on all four clips on all four cylinders. I'm now debating just buying four new plugs. Not sure on this one though..
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Old 04-12-2011, 10:56 AM   #4
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OK, this is aggravating. I was loaned some spare plugs yesterday and put them on, and the car fired right up. Bad plugs? You would think so. I went out again this morning (after not touching the car since it started last night) and cranked over the engine to the tune of not starting. I'm down to wiring and the ECU, but the wiring is a hard one to grasp, continuity test came back perfect..
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Old 04-12-2011, 11:06 AM   #5
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Shuiend had a weird issue with his cops, where in cold mornings they ran shitty. Not sure if he ever fixed it. He might have replaced coils.
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Old 04-12-2011, 11:54 AM   #6
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Yeah it has been during the colder days. I've decided to cut the end off my bracket and leave the stock coils on the car as a precaution. I wish I didn't have to, but.
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Old 04-13-2011, 10:52 AM   #7
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Update:

Alright, new symptom, or existing symptom that I didn't catch before... I tried starting the car with a charger on 12v boost to see if it was a voltage dip issue and it just cranked easier, no start. I unplugged coils 2 and 4 on a hunch, and after cranking for about 2 seconds it started, running very rough. After it got warm I plugged 3 and 4 back in and it fired right up and ran smooth, it even drove around and started up after I shut it off up the road.

However, after it got cold (about 6 hours later), it again would not start. Unplugging coils 3 and 4 resulted in a start but ran rough of course. Plugging in 3 and 4 results in it running choppy, sounds like intermittent miss on one cylinder. I did not have the time to let it get to operating temp since I have to get to bed, but that's the update so far.

Also, I've changed my dwell timing to 3.7ms crank and 3.1ms running.

Any idea what this could be? I'm going to try some new plugs since I might have fouled one with all my starting attempts or something.. I don't have anything besides a multimeter to test with, but evidence points to maybe it's just not able to power both coils or something. I also don't have my capacitors installed, I picked up two 35v 4700uF caps from radioshack, but my roommate says all it will do is prevent spikes but will it not also fill in the dips? I'm not an electrician, so..
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Old 04-13-2011, 11:08 AM   #8
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Okay sounds like you can start on 1&2 each time.

Try unplugging 1 and 2 next time, if it wont start you know either 3 or 4 or both are causing an issue.
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Old 04-13-2011, 11:27 AM   #9
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Which ground strap does the tach connect to? My tach seems to be off. It's low at idle by probably 100rpm, and as the RPM climbs it becomes progressively more off (almost 5-1000 rpm at redline). I also saw it hop up 1k rpm once. I'm wondering if that could be a contributing factor..

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Old 04-13-2011, 09:42 PM   #10
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Car started tonight on the front two plugs, and the back two if I only used two at a time. If I plugged the other two in at any given time, it revved up a bit, stumbled and died. I changed plugs because my old ones were fouled something awful after all the attempts to start it and put on new plugs, no go. Soon as I plugged the stock **** back in it fired right up.

I'm perplexed, angry, and ready to sell this **** off and get the LS1 **** on the FM site. 600 bucks is steep but goddamnit, that **** will work.

Edit- Car fired right up with the COPs after it was warmed by the stock coils with the new plugs in.

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Old 04-14-2011, 01:03 PM   #11
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The COPs use way more power than stock - have you tried temporarily hooking the COPs +12V and ground to known good places - like the +12 from the battery in the underhood fuse box or the main wire to the starter and ground to the body.

Have you checked the ground connection to the engine and the ground connection from the battery to the body?
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Old 04-14-2011, 03:35 PM   #12
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Battery to body no, that's the one in the trunk right? I hooked a multimeter to the #1 clip while the car was running and got 14+ volts, but I will try running a wire from the fuse box to the connector, that's actually a good idea..
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Old 04-14-2011, 08:57 PM   #13
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I unplugged #1 and ran a multimeter on it when doing a cold start and got 11v under starting conditions. car did not start.

Grounds and running a 12v from the fusebox to the harness did not solve the issue either, I'm thinking I might need to wire for sequential, but that sounds like a major pain..
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Old 04-16-2011, 09:41 PM   #14
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Ran two 35v 4700uF caps paired between +12 and ground, no go. The only thing I can think of now is the trigger signal.. Or something else that I'm missing...
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:58 AM   #15
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Those maps you posted in your first post. Are those one in the same, or two different dwell maps?
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Old 04-18-2011, 12:06 PM   #16
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Two different ones, the bottom info is the stock settings from the FM map, the top info is what I put in using Jason's information. I have since changed it to better match your info in the archive post; 3.5ms at 10-11.5v and from then on it's at 3.0v.
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Old 04-18-2011, 12:12 PM   #17
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I dunno what the deal is. I know y8s ran the Toyota COPs with his hydra on his '01.


The only thing I can think is that the Hyrda drivers can't run the cops in wasted mode. For some reason there was this same issue with the MS3X board, the drivers themselves didn't have enough juice do it.


what does that dwell trim map look like?
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:19 PM   #18
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Here's the current settings I have for dwell for you;

My modified dwell settings, I bumped up the dwell time slightly for starting and running to accommodate for voltage dips.


Current dwell trim, not sure what this map is actually for..


Not sure what dwell trim is actually for mind you, I can't even assume.

I am sure you are probably right, I am only guessing but it seems to fit. If that's the case I plan to call FM and ask for some ECU clips because I will be running sequential one way or another. I will try to test running two extra wires over the windshield before I fight the firewall grommet again for wiring room. If it works..
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:27 PM   #19
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the first dwell map you loaded looked better, you should match Jason's findings.

looks like dwell trim lets you increase/decrease dwell time in millisec at a certain rpm.

you might wanna play with it in the 0-850 columns up/down to see if it has an effect during cranking and find a number that works. what voltage do you pull when you crank?
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Old 04-18-2011, 03:02 PM   #20
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It was raining and friends of family were over last night, I'll try pulling voltage off the signal wire again when I get home tonight.

As for +12 voltage during cranking, I was seeing roughly 11v, but when it's actually running I see 14.3-14.6 on the +12 to the coils.
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