A couple DIY questions
 

Hello everyone. I am new to the Miata scene. I am planning on buying a 1995 Miata 1.8 L. After reading I have come to realize a turbo upgrade is the most practical way to make power. I am not going to buy it all right now, however, I do not want to spend the 3000 it costs for a Flyin' Miata package so I have come to conclusion I want to create my own.

So far I am looking at:
- JGS Turbo Manifold with a T3 inlet pattern and external waste gate.
- TIAL 28mm Waste Gate. (should I use a 35mm, what's the difference)
- Turbo T3/T04e 57 Trim Turbo T3/T4 (. 50 A/R COMPRESSOR, .63 A/R TURBINE, .57 TRIM)

What I am looking for still are the:
- Intercooler
- Downpipe
- Turbo Dump pipe? (do I need one?)
- Intercooling piping
- BOV (recirculating)

My goals are to reach 200BWHP for the time being.

My main question is what I have listed in that I am looking at, are my goals reachable? If not, what should be changed or added?
My other questions pertains to what I am still looking for. If you could suggest what to buy for those five items that would be greatly appreciated as I cannot find very much information on those five items.

Thanks in advance,
Tom Dow


PS: I have one other question. I am slowly realizing I need a dump pipe from the turbo, and another from the external waste gate (correct me if I'm wrong) how would I go about mating them to the exhaust pipe down towards the cat/muffler? Welding it? Thanks again

Talk to begi and get some t3 manifolds and then forget the IC and go with WI and 200 whp is totally doable. You will need fuel to get there though your punny 250's wont get you to 200 whp without more FP. Or you can use bigger injectors by tricking your stock ecu or getting a piggyback or standalone ecu. Fueling and cooling are the major concerns on a turbo miata. The external WG can be made to merge anywhere you like in the exhaust stream. Oh and Welcome

Oh and you will need a clutch as well.

also consider the ETDracing.com manifold or BEGi manifold both with T3 footprints.

you could shave some cost and run a straight T3 Super 60, that would be more than enough to make your goals.

the bigger the wastgate, the easier to control (so i hear)

intercooler: lots of us use cheap Ebay intercoolers with great results. You could buy pre-bent piping from various sources (FM, BEGi, mx5projects.com)

Downpipe/Dump pipe: I believe that's reference to the same part. If you want your life to be easy, get a manifold/turbo/dp combo. Since you want a T3 footprint, the easiest route would be BEGi (See S5 combo). They make a great manifold and have a few downpipe options. If there isn't one specifically for your turbo, im sure they build one if you send the turbo their way. Otherwise, you're going to have to go custom. Which in itself isn't terrible hard, but if you have no access to a welder, or can't do it at all, you'll have a turbo kit ready to go and no way to drive it to a muffler shop.

bov: anything will work. Lots of people go with cheap Bosch and DSM bov's and they work fine. Recirc. is the simplest way to ensure you don't screw up the mixture and don't have idling problems with the AFM/AMF inplace.


and like richard says, your clutch needs addressing.

begi mani/dp combo, solve tons of headaches right there.

t3/t4 is wasted at 200whp.

:gay:

You mentioned a t3/t4 is wasted @ 200bwhp. What turbo would you suggest to reach 200whp with a little headroom to reach 250 bwhp in later stages?

Thank you again.

Also you mentioned WI I'm assuming that is water injection correct me if I'm wrong. Where would be a good place to source those parts needed.

thanks again,
Tom Dow

When i spoke of downpipes and dump pipes I was referring the top section and bottom section of the downpipe, are they the same thing, will i need both, or only one? Or will I simply need a downpipe with a adapter plate that mates the DP to my Wastegate dump

The straight t3 i suggested.

the devil's own water inection kit in the group buy section of the for sale/trade section.

Do you have a link to buying a T3 Super 60? I looked on ebay to no avail. Thanks again.

I will look into Devil's WI. Is it really as good as I'm reading. running boost levels near what is passable with an inter cooler, but without one?


Also I'm sitting here thinking about this downpipe thing. You said they are one in the same. However, when running an external wastegate you need to re enter the gasses expelled correct? Also there is a downpipe that connects to the turbine itself (opposite side of the air filter connection) correct? Do you run these two together further down the downpipe? thnak you sorry for so many questions.

this looks like one, perfect exhaust housing for an external wastegate:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Garre...14573548QQrdZ1

This one is not the Super 60, but the regular 60 trim wheel is just .07" smaller inducer:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Garre...05440306QQrdZ1


I still wouldn't buy any of these unless I knew it was a 60 or S60 trim wheel, have them measure it. WideOpenTuning can get a brand new T3 60 trim .48 with no wastegate for $565 from ATPturbo.com

Okay, I think I'm going with the T3 super 60 like you suggested. Do these turbo's internal or external wastegates. Would running an Internal waste gate be more simplistic in the long run? Should I simply do that?

WI to me is something you add after you get bored with your car's IC only performance. IC always comes first, it will always work no matter what.

the t3 can come with an internal gate, and these work fine at our level, and are simpler to plumb.

like i said, get a begi mani/dp combo. then all you need is IC piping and exhaust. the dp goes all the way from the turbo to under the car.

However, you're not thinking about the most crucial part yet, fuel and spark control. you have good spelling and grammar, so I'd recommend looking into Megasquirt.

so i should buy a stage from them? is that what you're saying? Or simply just the mani/dp?

depends, their kit is 3k or something, so you could save big by just buying the mani/dp. itll come to around $900 i think, but they're the best you can get aside from custom ($$$$). you could still finish the kit for around 2-2.5k. (which would be equal in performance to the 5000$ fm and begi kits.)

I haven't had any trouble with the internal, holding 12psi to redline. however, the wastegate dump when using the internal technically has little to be desired....there really isnt an option for a seperated wastegate dump and the the flow from the turbine and mix in a small little area before exiting into the DP

you can see what i'm talking about here:

http://www.magnaflowonline.com/image...boparts017.jpg

Brain, on that picture, the bottom mount is for the manifold, the mount on the floor is for the turbo (turbine) correct, and the one facing up connects to?

Okay, I email steph from Begi about a Manifold/DP. Now I will look for a Turbo(leaning toward super 60 if i can find a cheap one), and IC. any suggestions?

correct....pictured is the outlet to the downpipe. on the bottom is the flange for the manifold...and rest on the floor would connect to the CHRA assembly.


remember you can probably find regular 60 trim T3 easier...there is pretty much no difference in compressor maps:

http://www.turbocharged.com/catalog/compmaps/Fig4.gif http://www.turbocharged.com/catalog/compmaps/Fig5.gif

okay, with that all settled, I believe i am going to use an internal wastegate as to avoid the confusion from mating the wastegate exhaust and turbo exhaust.

BEGI is the way to go you all seem to tell me, I am going to look @ them now for prices.

What size inter coolers are acceptable for the 95' Miata with Air Conditioning?

And does anyone sell rebuilt or used T3 Super 60 Turbos? Or another turbo with the same flange that will make ~200 BWHP without stressing too much PSI?

Tom, Give me a call. I sent you an email with my #

$464.00 p/n 60061 1.8L, T3 Turbo
$385.00 p/n 60004 for Stainless Steel, '94 to '97
$285.00 p/n 60004MS for Mild Steel Downpipe, '94 to '97

Are these the prices I was looking for. How do I know if the downpipe is made for a external/internal wastegate.
currently at work at the moment.

If it doesn't say "external" then it will be designed for an internal. External gates aren't as common, most people run internal. Those are the prices you were looking for.

Thank you, again. Also what size intercooler do most people run? Length X Width X Depth?

ALSO: are internal wastegates adjustable? If so how?

Some internal wastegates are adjustable via tightening the actuator rod. You can also increase boost via a manual boost controller inline with the WG signal line.
You have read Braineacks FAQ right? He states alot of information in there, read it front to back and try to retain as much of it as possible. Nearly everything has been done and he has documented most of it.

Okay, yes i have read, just some leaves me a little puzzled. I thought you could, but was unsure if you could place an MBC inline with the WG signal. I believe it goes inline BEFORE it reaches the wastegate, correct?

it's really up to you what you can fit in there vs. afford.

I'm running a $80 Ebay 18x12x3" intercooler and have no issues, Fit's perfectly with the A/C dryer intact.

You could easily fit a 24x12x3" IC but it would have to be offset:
http://flyinmiata.com/turbos/images/IMG_3064.jpg

You won't get any taller than 11-12" in there, and no wider than 30" end-to-end.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Garre...14573548QQrdZ1

Would this turbo be good enough for my goals of 200BWHP? I plan on findng on that isnt from ebay, just making sure the AR and exhaust are a good size

yeah i linked that one above....after looking at it again it looks odd.

the compressor looks too small and the CHRA doesn't look right. look at my second link.

what is your budget for a turbo?

I'm trying to make everything under 2000 if at all possible. I am at ~700 after Manifold, downpipe, and MBC.

I am still in search for a
TURBO
Intercooler w/ piping
BOV
O2 Clamp (if needed)
Air filter


And anything else i may need, I've been told Emanage and 330 Injectors? Or should I use something else.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T4...QQcmdZViewItem itll work but it is to expensive

no emanage required, just a fpr.

Do I need new Injectors or fuel pump? or can i get away with simply a FPR? And where would I source one?

injectors would make it easier afpr can be had through ebay or the classifieds here. Fuel pump from lightning motorsports or another source. check out the faq. it explains all this.
https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4288

I was able to source the FPR for 200 @ Begi, however, looking at lightnign motor sports they only carry Miata 1994-97 190lph, Miata 1994-97 255lph, or Miata 1994-97 255lph-HP.

They do not carry the 190 HP as mentioned in Braineack's post.

EDIT: sorry, they had a new page, and i found it.

:rofl: tom this just isnt as hard as you make it out to be, it just takes some reading, and time.

I make things alot harder than they are. I never had this much trouble with my toyota MR2 lol. But mazda... eh. maybe it's me lol

Okay after all your help, and all the "research I have compiled a list. Please feel free to amend or point out anything I may have missed:

BEGi Manifold: $464 New
Ebay T3/04 60 Trim Turbo: $190 "New"
BEGi Downpipe: $285 New
Ebay MBC: $16
Ebay BOV: ~$33
MiataTurbo.net O2 Clamp: $65
Dual Feed Rail: Modified OEM
K & N Air Filter: $22
BEGi AFPR: $200 New
Walbro 190 HP FP: $80 New

Total: 1354
Optional:

1993 Supra Na Injectors: $90
Total: 1444


Still Need:

Intercooler
Intercooler pipes

looks good to me tom :bigtu:

Did I restore some of your lost confidence in me? heh. Now to source some Intercooler and pipes.

the begi downpipe will not work for that turbo.... Call BEGi and ask them what t3 outlet their downpipe is for....the t3 has about 5 different turbine swingarms. I'd do a little more research on exactly what turbo you want to go with.

if you were willing to spend it then I'd go with brand new components:

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=TBN

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=WGT

wideopentuning (kelly) on here can give discounts through ATP, so contact him for a final price....this way you know exactly what you are getting is 100% genuine products.

You really should give me a call.
That turbo WILL give you power you want, but I believe it will be upwards of 4000-4500 rpm before you see it. If your car is a daily driver, you are going to want a turbo that will spool much faster. A much smaller and faster spooling t25 will make the car much more spirited for daily driving with the modest hp you are looking for.

Dont confuse him damit the t3 s60 will be just fine. Sure he can spen more on a BB 2554 but he wants to do this cheap and effective. the T3 is by no means a big turbo. But it will flow as well or better than the Greddy unit.

What spool times will I be seeing wtih the T3 S60? Will it still spool quickly? Also, Braineack says the turbo will not mate with the downpipe, so i will PM wideopen for an estimate on the two parts.

you should spool by 2300 atleast 2500 rpm similiar to the greddy guys.

Okay I sent an email to BEGi (do they reply to emails) about the T3 Outlet on the downpipes. I'll be waiting on a reply for my decision, likewise, i sent kelly a PM regarding the ATP parts Braineack posted.

If you want to get this figured out today i would call them they are super nice.

I got some time. Waiting for the deal to come through on the car. So I got the time.

the turbo you linked to him was not a T3...it was a T3/T4, probably wouldn't spool till 4000-5000rpms.


FWIW I hit 12psi by 4k, that's with a cat and 2.25" exhaust. on the BEGi manifold and 2.5-2.75" DP.

I see boost pretty much all the time, I'm hitting boost just taking corners at stop signs. by 2.5-3K I'm at 5-6psi.

Okay, so I will look for a T3 s60 NOT a t3/T4 while I wait for Kelly to get back to me, thank you for explaining the difference


The wastegate you linked to has a 5 bolt exit correct? What if BEGi doesn't support the 5 bolt?

yeah the t3/t4 is a t3 turbine, with a t40b (i believe) compressor. So it has the advantage of a smaller turbine to spool, but the compressor is made to pump out massive air, so it takes a while for it to spool, but once it does...hold on. if you are looking for a 200-250rwhp, then there no need for a t3/t4. I'm making 200rwhp at about 11psi, if I went with engine management and a better exhaust, i'd expect about 230rwhp at the same boost level.

Oh okay, so simply put, I will be having a near setup to your own. The Wastegate you linked to make the 5 bolt discharge of the T3 turbo into a 3 bolt discharge, what will happen if BEGi does not sell a 3 bolt? Thank you.

Using larger injectors, AFPR from BEGi and a new fuel pump are my goals of ~200 BWHP within reach?

Begi sells it they make whatever you like if they dont then you can get info from them on what would be easiest to work to.

Cheap? I agree.
Effective? I don't
At no point did I read of anyone asking him what his primary purpose was for building the car. If he is wanting a car that produces all of its power on the top and all he is going to be doing is drag racing, then fine.
If he is wanting to enjoy the added power at moderate speeds and rpm levels then I believe you are steering him to too big a turbo.

Magnamx, there is no doubt from reading your post, that you are very knowledgeable about these cars, but I do feel that, unless he is drag racing, he needs a faster spooling turbo for a street driven car. Otherwise he is going to have to constantly downshift the car to get the necessary rpms to spool the bigger turbo.
After all, he is only wanting 200 hp, the hybrids will easily support more than twice that! even with a small .43 a/r hotside.

True but plenty of people on here run these turbos as DD's with no real lag issues. It seems you know quite abit about garret turbos, but are scared of lag or had experience with a setup that was sized all wrong for the application. boost by 2K rpm is hardly laggy in my book and it gets progressivly stronger as the pressure and flow builds mimicing the characteristics of the stock motor. This will save on drivetrain parts and gas milelage. in my book. but to each there own.

This isnt a T 3 60 trim is it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GARRE...QQcmdZViewItem

yep as far as i can tell it is.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GARRE...QQcmdZViewItem

In the first picture, waht is that flange showing? Is that a wastegate flange?

http://www.blaastperformance.com/img_prod/t3-4860a.jpg this is the oil drain.

it's the feed dude.
to me the compressor wheel doesn't actually look like a genuine garrett, but a knockoff. garrett t3 wheels are curved.

this is my current wheel:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/at...6&d=1133330812
Genuine Super 60 Wheel

This is a 50 trim:
http://www.magnaflowonline.com/image...boparts014.jpg
this was an old one of mine

Ebay "genuine" T3 wheel:
http://www.magnaflowonline.com/image...boparts001.jpg

since when does the feed have 2 other bolt holes by it for the drain flange dealy i dunno looks like th Drain on my DSM turbo. My feed only has one hole. + why would the feed be on the bottom scot?

since when is the drain only 1/8" NPT

the two holes are for inlet adapters (my turbo):

https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/at...2&d=1125710906


the drain looks like this:

http://www.turbochargers.com/store/i...0t3%2060-1.JPG


remember is a CHRA, Center Housing Rotating Assembly, or something like that.

If anything I know T3s, infact it's the only turbo I know anything about.