DIY SS Bottom Mount Manifold
 

I got all my goodies from Weir Tech yesterday and today decided to play with them in the garage. They are Sch10 SS Weld elbows. I'm going to be running a 3" allumanized steel downpipe since i've got tons of bends leftover from my exhaust build. One thing led to another and I actually ended up cutting the collector and tacked it together.

I dont have a chop or band saw so I had no way of making a super accurate cut. I ended up putting it level in a vice like so:
Attachment 202784

Then eye-balling the cut and going to town with my hack saw:
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I wont lie, I had to do some grinding to get them to fit correctly, but i'm pretty pleased with how it came out.
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Next I took the collector and lined it up at the rough angle I wanted it to be on the runners.
Attachment 202787

Then I taped them.
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The rest are just various pictures of positioning i'm playing around with. I really wont be able to determine my final alignment til I get this on my spare engine and borrow a turbo from someone to check turbo-block clearance. I'm also a bit concerned about fitment in the engine bay near the steering column (if thats what its called).

More pics just cause I wanted to have more than UrbanSoot ever has in his build threads.

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You did damn well for using a hack saw. I can't even cut a hockey stick straight with one of those things. :loser:

Looks like its coming along well. If you dont mind me asking how much did it cost you for the flanges and bends?

I think it was something like 125 bucks shipped.

Like I said, it took a fair amount of grinding to get them to fit the way I wanted ;)

Great job,Now work faster so I can steal your Ideas!I went to High school with a dude named Wayne Curr
-G-

Strong work! MS, exhaust, mainifolds, what can't you build? NWFTW!

I really need to learn to weld...
Looks great

Its as easy as writing your name in the snow.

How unfortunate for him...poor guy.

I cant take credit for the exhaust, Bob Bundy made that and I could never come close to doing as well as he did...

[QUOTE=wayne_curr;477447]
How unfortunate for him...poor guy.
:laugh::laugh:He was big Flamer!
-G-

how do you like your Miller Millermatic welder?

Its awesome. A friend of mine that is a pro welder was extremely impressed with it as well.


Speaking of welding, I'm beginning to think that i'm going to have to pay someone to tig this manifold when i'm ready...I really cant afford to buy a second bottle for the tri-mix of gas.

I'm sure sbkcocker499 would do it for cheap.

Ya, i'm sure he would. I'm gonna ask someone that is local to me first. If no luck there i'll bring it to Sbk :)

What are you using for gas right now? argon works fine for stainless, you just need to back purge it.

But does argon actually work for mig welding? I thought it had to be trimix or it was bust.

If I can do argon with stainless wire, i'll be happy.

Im sorry Im thinking tig, didn't realize you were using mig. Im doing some tig for a structural steel shop tomorrow and they mig stainless all the time, Ill ask them what they use and let you know tomorrow. Ive done stainless to mild steel before with standard mig wire and a 75/25 argon co2 mix but I know thats not what you are going for.

Looks like it's coming along nicely!

Add me to the list of impressed- for the precision and the cutting by hand. Nice job.

I dont know if i'd use the word "precision" exactly lol.

you haven't seen my hand drawn cuts ;)

Hey I just talk to the head guy at the welding shop, he says to use stainless wire and the tri gas, if you don't want to buy a bottle you could rent one for a couple dollars a month.

Awesome. So with the trimix do I still need to backpurge? Any specific stainless wire?

Nice improvisation. SCH10 SS takes long enough to cut on the bandsaw, I can image there was a lot of :vash: cutting with a hacksaw.

What do you plan on doing for the 2+3 runners?

Champagne of beers eh?

Nice work!

How was it cutting stainless with the hack saw? I remember burning through a bunch of sawzall blades cutting stainless to build an exhaust.

No he said that you dont have to back purge with the mig and tri mix

Honestly, hacksawing was not as difficult as people make it out to be. A little bit of exercise, definitely, but not too hard. Keeping it straight is a bit of a challenge.

The number 2+3 runners will be done like Stein/18psi etc. Very simple, semi-straight into the collector. Not ideal, for sure, but I didn't order enough straight pipe or bends to make a full on 4 into 1 merge collector mani. Nor do I have the skill or tools etc.

Ideally you always want to backpurge stainless. If the weld penetrates 100%, the inside will "sugar" (oxidize) unless backpurged.

Thats what I thought. Isn't there a paste of some sort that can be used on the inside of the joints to achieve the same effect?

I'm going to go to airgas today and ask them what they think. I'm pretty sure i'm going to end up running trimix with backpurge of pure argon if I end up migging this mani. I'm really wishing I had just gone carbon for this manifold at this point.

Thats what I thought but he said it wont. I only Tig stainless so back purging is a must.

I'm going to go to airgas today and ask them what they think. I'm pretty sure i'm going to end up running trimix with backpurge of pure argon if I end up migging this mani. I'm really wishing I had just gone carbon for this manifold at this point.[/QUOTE]

well you can just weld it up with your standard mig wire and gas you have, it will work but it wont be stainless anymore, muffler shops do that all day long. you will just have a shinny mani with rusty welds :giggle:

well you can just weld it up with your standard mig wire and gas you have, it will work but it wont be stainless anymore, muffler shops do that all day long. you will just have a shinny mani with rusty welds :giggle:[/QUOTE]

Lol. I've got the stainless, I want a stainless weld bead =P

Solar flux is what you're thinking of. It's great for exhausts,downpipes and headers, but I wouldn't use it on a turbo manifold, unless you think you can grind it all off in between welds. The stuff will flake off and damage your turbo.

Wish you were closer. I have a TIG, but no expierience with stainless & back purging yet. Just got the welder over the summer. Only done mild steel and aluminum so far.

I never used tri mix gas. waste of money. Ive actually never even heard of it untill 18psi's build. For aluminum i love using 75/25 helium! Burns hot and leaves great bead formation (especially with pulse) with a shiny weld to boot. Argon gas with argon back purge. Bring some beer and a little bit of cash we can do it this weekend. (Let me know so i can go snag an alternate tank for purge).

BTW i have been TIG'ing for 1 year @ 60 hours a week.

It wont be done by this weekend. Maybe next weekend, we'll see how progress goes.

I'm not causing trouble by tacking it with regular carbon wire am I?

The only thing is that at the tack there will be a lower chromium content then the surrounding area. We will grind them out before welding over them.

Looking good man. I don't envy you cutting with a hacksaw. I spent a lot of time with my bandsaw, angle grinder and cutoff wheel in the die grinder. The cutoff wheel is your friend when hand coping joints. Much easier to handle with one hand and holding the part in the other.

I've got to say, I am uber impressed that you are able to make those cuts with a hacksaw too, it isn't even one of the high tension frames (which helps a lot for future reference.) I'm surprised the supplies from weirtech were so cheap for SS flanges and SS schedule 10 tube. I'll probably have to order from them, though I am still on the fence of if I want to do it in SS or mild, just because I figure I will be learning as I go, and it is cheaper and easier to learn on mild (though i've got the welding part down... go figure.) Did they sell you the exhaust flange with the bolt holes already sliced for thermal expansion?

Two things, the relieved bolt holes is new to me. Might be something they just started or maybe just the stainless. My wiertech mild flange wasn't cut. I have had zero problems with that since I installed it.

Also, I used stainless weld els and wiertech mild steel flanges together. Use 309L filler rod to join the two with no problems. In a year now, I have seen no rust on my flanges to speak of and the stainless to mild joints have held up fine. It's been done by many people before me. Stainless flanges are 3X times the mild steel price.

yes, my flanges are mild steel as well.

In retrospect, getting stainless parts at all was my biggest mistake. I'm pretty much decided on paying someone else to tig it for me which adds more to the bottom line of this project.

Can't you get stainless wire for MIG?

Yes but I would have to get gas to go with it. I'll only end up using the stainless wire and gas for this project most likely and then it will go to waste. I mean, if I can get the gas for like 40 bucks (ya right) then i'd prolly just do it.

Or just give your $40 to sbkcocker and win.

Exactly my point. The problem is that I might have to do it in 2 trips. I dont see how i'm going to be able to cut the holes for the middle 2 runners without the outter runners being welded together.

You know im a fabricator right??? :jerkit:

I don't have time right now to read this whole thread and say how awesome you are doing, but based on the first post you are doign awesome. My first manifold was done just like yours, with a hack saw and those little 1" diameter dremel cutoff discs (a whole sleeve of them). So you're on the right track.

However, my biggest concern is that your turbo will hit the block. Those 1.5" pipe weld elbows are 2.25 radius, so you are about 2.75 away from the block when you include the flange...not gonna work, at least I don't think it will.

Sorry if this was mentioned already or you knew it. Tack it together and see if you got clearance with the turbine/motor mount bolts and the compressor/block.

No, your'e right. Turbo will hit the block at this point definitely. I haven't decided if I want to rotate the collector out or if I want to add spacers in between the flange and the runners. Going to play with some things tomorrow.

Needs more tacos! LOL :old joke:

Seriously, that sucks. Bolt it on, hold stuff up to it and go from there. That's the joy of DIY. Just make it work.

Also, I used stainless weld els and wiertech mild steel flanges together. Use 309L filler rod to join the two with no problems. In a year now, I have seen no rust on my flanges to speak of and the stainless to mild joints have held up fine. It's been done by many people before me. Stainless flanges are 3X times the mild steel price.[/QUOTE]

I used this 309L rod on Friday on a pool heat exchanger and it worked great to join stainless to carbon steel. you might want to try and see if they make wire in that same material for your flanges and just have the rest TIGed by someone else.

Got some more exercise today.

As Tim pointed out, the turbo was certainly going to hit the block. I decided to space the manifold out a bit, and also lift it a bit higher to make sure i'd miss the motor mount. To do this I basically just cut 1" straight pieces of pipe and taked them onto the manifold. Then turned my runners a few degrees so they were pointed up. I got the left runner cut and tacked into place. I started making my cut for the right runner and my hacksaw broke :(

I also started cleaning the metal before tacking it since its a lot easier than breaking the tacks later to clean it.

Pics:
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...r/DSC01561.jpg

Those cheater cuts will hurt you. I think you're making this more complicated than it needs to be. Looks like you still have two good elbows. If I were you, I would scrap that idea and go with your first design. You just needed to rotate the collector forward. You're not gonna hit the motor mount.

You sure? With the first design the thing hung really low. I'm also concerned with it hitting the steering stuff as well. At this point I need to get a new cutting device and just pull the car into the garage and use it to finish this. To difficult with just an engine on a table. Need to get it done by this weekend.

Not 100% sure, but it's worth a try. These are the best pictures I could find for clearance:

Steering shaft:

http://i27.tinypic.com/2mr8i91.jpg

Motor mount:

http://i27.tinypic.com/28vxh04.jpg

Yours sits lower so YMMV, but I don't think it will hit at the right angle. Tape it and test fit until it's just right.

A cutoff wheel in a grinder works well for making cuts. It'll need a little clean up but it cant be worse than a hacksaw :)

i agree with ARTech (as usual). dont do cheater cuts if for no reason than it looks cheated. rotate collector to the angle in ARTechs pics. tape and check or tack. And ABSOLUTELY get the $10 HF angle grinder & some $4 recessed cutoff wheels. goes infinitely quicker and less labor. trust me. been there done that ;) dont rush it you are doing great!

Well I can say that you are showing dedication. Are you going to come down ?

A'ite you got me motivated enough to get off the couch. All I have is 1.8 geometry which is different, but hopefully this gets you close.

A 30° turbine flange angle from horizontal gets you a turbine shaft height almost dead nuts vertical and .262" lower than the standard Absurdflow low mount manifold. There should be clearance downwards, and if you aren't using a vband or .86 housing there should be lots of clearance with the motormount.

Holy fucking shit, thanks man. I've wished I had the skills to whip that up for a long time now lol.

Ok, you convinced me. I'll get rid of the cheater pieces, use my 2 remaining bends that are unmolested and use some straight pipe for the center runners.

Sbk, i'm going to be down this weekend but not sure if i'll have enough time to spend much time at your place. If I get this manifold done by then i'll come over, have a couple beers while you get started and prolly come back another day to pick it up. We'll see.

No problem. And thank you, looks like a new absurdflow maybe...less cutting than the standard...hehe. ;)

If you're feeling adventurous and want to do the blended style, get me the bore spacing for the 1.6 and I'll throw those dims in, and get you the angles for the center primaries.

If not, I also did a quick straight pipe for the middle 2 primaries. That'd be easy.

Wow, I dont know if I can pull off a 4 into 1 collector like that. But damn if that isn't bitchin. Although, I think i'd need a couple more bends for that since I already screwed a couple up with my earlier nonsense.

Here it is back to the original design. The only problem is that i'm still going to need to fill a 3/8th gap with a cheater piece.

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I dont see a way around it unless I redo my collector completely which I dont have enough bends left to do, although your rendering is tempting me...

Edit: oh and the bore spacing (center to center, right?) is 3.5" by a quick eyeball with my tape measure. 1.5" between each bore edge to edge.

That's awesome Tim!

Wayne, a spacer is fine. That's not a cheated cut. A cheater cut is an angled cut not perpendicular to the center axis of the pipe (if that makes sense). I'm sure you noticed the pipe you cut at an angle ended up with a bigger, ovaled diameter that didn't quite match up to the other pipe.