Not sure how I missed this. Don't waste your money on copper lock nuts. They are as good as butter when being used to lock the turbine housing to the exhaust manifold flange. They won't last ........They lasted about 5 mins within the first session of my trackday before they all stretched and rattled loose. Considering the cost, don't bother


Either get TSE's hardware kit or use cheap Nissan Inconel Studs and associated locking hardware. Stage 8 and Nordlock are a minimum. I used 1 (it comes with two counter directional locking washers by default) locking washer on the turbine discharge stud with a nut and the full 2 locking washer setup on the remaining 3 with Nissan studs and nuts.

Well, turns out the turbosmart IWG with a 5psi spring doesn't really work. holds 6.5psi to about 4k rpm then settles in at 11psi. I'll mess with the preload a bit and see what happens, but I'm going to get the low boost EFR IWG and go from there. Overall way more power than i was planning but it runs great, and didn't end up doing anything with E85. I'll get the spare engine built up, then we'll go for allofit on E.

The run in the video was 239hp 190tq with a 7000rpm soft redline. We upped it to 7500 and got the 246/195. Split the difference and set it at 7200.





https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d9d84ff962.jpg

Nice flat torque around 200. That will be good on your trans and motor.

Make sure you've got it clocked correctly. EFRs are extremely particular about the alignment between the actuator and the flapper/turbine housing. Two degrees off and it's boost creep city.

He said ewg. I assume he's using a vband housing with no iwg?

Just looked back at the thread. He means turbosmart internal waste gate actuator. Totally different than EWG.

That's the one I plan on running. Hope you get it working a little better.

Maybe try actuating it with some compressed air and see if you get full travel.

My bad, in my excitement I mistyped. Edited the post for correctness.

I just used some some compressed air and it cracks at around 6.5, fully open at 16. Seems to be moving freely, but Ill take it it off the turbo tomorrow to see if it's any different.

That would be the other test. I have one, but it's got 14psi springs inside it so it wouldn't exhibit the same symptoms if the throw isn't long enough.

14psi can should just be two 7psi springs. You can always pull the inner and see how it works.

Wastegate was definitely binding. This was how it lined up. Clocked the center section a few degrees to where it would slide right on (twss). I still think the 2 turns of preload is a bit much for the 5psi spring, but I'm happy where its at. Holds 8psi very linear, one or two creeps to 9/10psi.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e3961eff20.jpg

Thanks for help!

As for the idle cells being around 80 VE, not really sure. Tuner even said its weird, but we agreed that its happy there so no sense in messing with it.

I had a similar issue of idle cells being super high years ago when I was on DW1000 injectors. No clue why it had to be that high. My concern with it was running out of resolution in boost due to starting so high. I changed to ID1000's and now my idle cells are in the 30's.

I dont have any of the dyno logs yet, so can't post a comparison...but the boost looks much better.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0cf7fd0e39.jpg




Thats why I thought it was weird, since you (and everyone else) with ID1000s are in the 30s.

Aside from the high idle VE, everything else looks good. The highest cell value is 117, still a ways away from the 255 max and the injectors are at about 50%. Idle PW is around 1.6

:bigtu:

The easiest way to get it right is to set the turbo on a workbench with the turbine outlet down. Loosen up the CHRA-turbine bolts, then tighten them until they are just barely finger tight. Put the wastegate can on, but leave the lower/preload nut off. When the wastegate alignment is correct, the flapper will fall off the actuator under its own weight. You can check this by putting the flapper on the actuator rod, misaligning the turbo, then slowly rotating the turbo until it falls off. Once it falls off, throw a sharpie mark on the CHRA/turbine so you know where correct is, tighten down the 4 bolts, and go.

Doing it on the car is a little more finnicky, but still doable. You want the flapper arm to slide totally freely on the actuator rod. If it feels tight at all, rotate the CHRA 1-2deg at a time until it frees up.

Exactly what I did, seems to have done the trick. I'll remember the bench setup for when I change out for a 6758 :D

Now back off that preload and see if you can actually hold 5psi. That is what interests me the most.

im at the recommended two turns preload, but will try backing it off.

should be able to get some datalogs next week.

also going to wire in RSW from the dash...

-very slight difference with 1 vs 2 turns preload, still around 8psi will creep up to 10/11ish at the top end.

-ZERO preload, just enough to hold the flapper shut... 7psi mostly with a max of 9.3.

I haven't really studied the turbo response between the three in the logs, but the car feels faster with 2 turns preload. Makes sense because the 'gate isnt cracking open as early.

I'm mostly curious if backpressure is blowing the gate open, or if ebc will be able to hold it shut with a dual port actuator.

Gotcha. I didn't realize that a dual port was available until after I bought this one.

I probably won't start messing with EBC until i get the built motor finished.

So I can confidently say, I had a terrible time setting up the several OTS EBCs, Greddy and Apexi to name a few, to work with the EFR wastegate setup. The Turbosmart ones seems to be more capable. However, at the price point of the specific EFR boost controller that FR sells, I rather buy a $20 MAC valve and go to town on a stand alone ECU. I have had much more success with this method and can easily set up upper limits, individual cell duty cycle, boost by gear, temp dependent settings, etc etc etc. I am not entirely sure, but it seems the wastegate diaphragms in the EFRs have a terrible time with the OTS EBCs. I thought it was just me, but I have seen several others on the Nissan forum experience the same issue (inconsistent boost control).

For instance: The Greddy has a load and gain adjustment value. Unfortunately, it tapers on the upper end, and no matter what you set it to it will taper boost off on the upper end essentially running out of resolution up top (or something to that effect). It did not possess enough resolution to correct for the higher RPM and flow and It required much too much work to get the correct Gain and Duty cycle setting for an individual boost setting. By going to the MAC valve, I had much more control over the individual load cells and could adjust duty cycle to prevent the boost curve from tapering off. That is what is lacking in most aftermarket OTS EBCs: resolution or correction in order to control the EFR gate setup throughout the rev range and the ability to adjust signal based off a target "boost" or target "duty cycle" based on ECU being used. 50% duty cycle @ 3000 RPM yields wildly different results as 50% duty cycle @ 6500 RPM.



This was on a single port, but I have a hunch the same issue will arise on the dual port. This is just my opinion, but hopefully useful to someone else. I may be explaining it incorrectly, but this is what I came up with :)

I would not use standalone EBC. Megasquirt closed loop is easier and cheaper.

Not sure anyone here uses standalone.

this

So i decided to try the 3psi spring. This time i set up overboost to 150kpa (~7.3psi), which i hit at 5700rpm. I'm going to back the preload off to 1 turn.

I wired up the boost solenoid so will start tuning that, I think the 3psi spring will work well for 8 with 10 as overboost protection.

Just want to make sure I have this right...
Closed loop boost, set targets and overboost protection. drive the car. adjust the PID per the manual until it works. Manual says use 0/100 for min/max duty cycle, is that what everyone does since with ms3 most don't mess with open loop first?

Also, realized I haven't posted a pic of the car in its current form.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...16df239977.jpg

Find your min and max duty cycle. I'm surprised the manual says that.

Open loop boost control.

Set duty cycle to like 10%.

Do a pull.

Increase until you stop gaining spool.

Back it off like 5% to give some room.

Then go to 100% (make sure overboost is set coorectly)

Decrease from 100% until you lose spool

Back up 5% to give some room.

In order:

• Turn off closed loop
• Set overboost ~20kpa above max boost (overboost is a protection strategy against WG failure, not a crutch for crappy EBC tuning. I set it fairly high so I'm not fighting with it during PID tuning)
• Tune and adjust open loop duty table until you get desired boost level (do this at night, preferably). Do this for several boost levels if you want to set up TPS-based EBC
• Turn on closed loop and load open loop duty table into closed loop bias table
• Tune and adjust PID until you are happy (low overshoot and low boost taper/drop at high RPM)

Do this after setting min and max duty cycles. The algorithm can be more precise with a smaller range to work in.

Or:

1. Sit in your garage with the engine idling, EBC valve uninstalled and out of the car
2. Adjust ECU until EBC valve reacts to DC% inputs at idle
3. Blow into the "vent" port. You should not be able to blow into it at 0%DC. Raise DC until you can just barely blow into it. Back off 2%. That's minimum DC%
4. Raise DC% to 100%. Blow into "signal" port (the port that normally goes to the WG). You should not bea ble to blow into it at 100%DC. Lower DC until you can just barely blow into it. Raise it 2%. That's maximum DC%

Good idea. Hadn't thought about that.

If you wanted to be scientific you could use regulated air pressure and watch for a pressure drop.

Perfect, this is what I had in mind if I needed to find the min/max.

I didn't think just using 0/100 seemed right.

I figured this forum would be more open to instructions which included "blow it"

Ok this is weird. I tried blowing into the vent port at Min at 0% and I could still blow through it, same with Max at 100%. Also, the "in", or the metal inlet gets extremely hot not even on the car, is this normal?

i didn't find the blow test very beneficial. I ended up with 7min 97max. So I started driving in closed loop setup mode and found 30 to be the point where mine begins to impact the spool.

if I had to do it again I'd just drive the car and increase a few points at a time as stated above.

Im not sure the valve is working. I mean, I already set it to all the way open and all the way closed and nothing changed so I'm not sure if driving the car and adjusting it will actually do anything.

What valve
what frequency is it set for.
Is it clicking?
Have you tried test mode.

Its the stock EFR valve.
I have no idea what frequency its set for. How would I check that?
No, not clicking. Its just silent, but very hot.

its under boost control settings. The EFR manual says set to less than or equal to 32Hz

i have mine set at 26

The EFR solenoid and MAC valve have very similar (freq) settings.

Mine is also at 26

Using the MAC or EFR solenoid, on my setup the EFR gate didn't begin to react until around 25-30% duty cycle

Max or min?

That would be min. Then start from 100 and work your way down to find max.

even when max was at 0 it didnt change anything when blowing into it. So why would it change while driving?

Correct, minimum

I have used some basic math to get within my desired boost vs duty cycle

For instance if you want to run 10psi on a 7psi wastegate. That is a 43.01% increase in boost. I ended up running 45% duty to achieve the desired psi.

Dunno. Yours must be broken.

You were using test mode to test it?

The mouth blow test is not necessarily a good test IMHO and not very reliable/consistent (I cannot control how much air pressure I can exhale on a consistent basis). I have found using a bicycle pump with a gauge as a cheap option to test my MAC/solenoid or an air compressor with a gauge that you can adjust the psi output. All the MAC valve is doing is cycling the amount of pressure/vacuum the diaphragm is seeing (two port, vs single port for example). Nothing fancy

I also used the bicycle pump method to calibrate the EFR wastegate to compare preload vs wastegate crack pressure. The above math, wastegate pressure test and MAC test got me a good baseline without even starting the car and running the risk of running max duty cycle. That seems like a quick way to ventilate a block as compared to working your way from a known baseline.

Set over boost correctly and don't be a retard?

Theres no need to spool it to 25 psi. Go full throttle until 10ish psi and lift. Do this a bunch while lowering duty cycle and compare logs.

It's not rocket science. You can do it in 10 minutes.

..........Or you can just set it up prior to this??

Not being a retard, but I have found the EFR diaphragms to be somewhat inconsistent.What I suggested removes much of the guessing work.

Yes, you can do the overboost protection. Not denying that for sure. But why not get within your desired pressures before even driving off the block??

More than one ways to skin a cat I guess :)

Sure. But arguing that you are going to ventilate a block is silly. If you manage to do that you probably shouldn't be tuning your own car.

SO here is a question: If you are not entirely sure what psi the max duty cycle equates to, but are not willing to spool to 25psi (or whatever the upper limit is, or simply you are not entirely sure just how much duty cycle your engine can take or what the EFR gate will actually allow), how will you find the upper limit if you have overboost protection?? So unless your overboost protection is close to max duty cycle (which you have not figured out as of yet), how are you both finding the upper limit and also not essentially going off strictly wastegate with no signal??

Not trying to argue, just curious of another method.

I am just leery of going straight to 100% duty cycle on a EFR diaphragm. Just preferential and cautious as I have had inconsistency with the "stock" EFR diaphragms :(

You look at the spool. When your spool slows down the go back up a little bit and call that your max.

At max duty you will spool your turbo as fast as possible. As soon as you go below max then above wastegate pressure spool will slow down. It might actually slow down before that if the wastegate is cracking open early.

So you need to spool to higher than wastegate pressure. But not much more.

Aha! I see the discrepancy in what we are discussing: you are discussing "gain" duty cycle (spool) and I'm referring to boost duty cycle :)

For the purpose of boost control tuning they are the same though.

test mode?

Have you already gone through the titling process or are you claiming it as a body kit for the Miata and retaining the Miata VIN?

Looks like it's going to be a boat load of fun.

Tuner studio has a test mode. You can set the outputs to whatever duty cycle you want. How were you trying to test it before?

1) overboost has nothing to do with the solenoid duty cycle. you set spark cut, fuel cut, or both. you set a max kpa and if it hits that then its like hitting the rev limiter.
2) you can't run LESS than whatever the wastegate is rated for. 100% duty will be the same for whatever wastegate as it will see no signal, which will be allofit unless back pressure overcomes spring pressure. not sure what you're getting at there. For example, I set my overboost to 180kpa. Made runs to find what duty got me 140, 150, 170. MS3 closed loop setup mode makes this easier because it holds 100% duty until within Xkpa of your target.

I am registered through South Dakota, PM if you want more info

Unless you change your idle control settings to boost and use the idle test, I didn't see a test mode for the boost solenoid. I just changed the settings to allow it to operate at idle and changed the values in the OL table

Output testmode - I/O.

PP3 - Boost.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a4034e1282.png

Set frequency and then increase duty cycle.

well look at that, didn't even think to look in there... :doh:

Is it under boost control settings? I was just adjusting %, burning, then blowing into the valve.