Fab9 350 hp intercooler vs ebay intercooler
 

Fab9 worth the extra coin due to having mounting tabs? Anyone have any data logs (or can comment) on how fast the iat's raise and lower? Looking to run either on a fm2 type setup. Ebay intercooler is the one being discussed in a sticky.

Here's one with the vibrant 350 core (fab9) intercooler on a pretty hot day doing a pull.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1424641334

I'm trying to find one where i had just the crossover pipe on my voodoo kit. I know it spiked to at least 160F at some points on a cool night.

This intercooler could take a good amount of abuse. After a good long hard drive my intake temperatures were fairly consistent unlike my oil temperatures where had no auxiliary cooling.

Not having to fab a mounting solution was worth the extra cost for me. Painless. Plus he has them in flat black for a little more stealth.

Very steady IATs on my car. Heat soak disappears very fast after hot startup.

Do the tabs work with nb2's also?

I'm impressed by how tough the vibrant cores are. They are built like tanks, I'm sure could take a ton of abuse.
And the size is perfect for a miata mouth, and of course his mounting tabs are super sturdy and work well.

Yes the tabs work perfectly with nb2

I contacted fm about just getting an fm2 w/no electronics and minus intercooler/pipes. There isnt a huge amount to be saved by going with the fab9 ic.

ebay cores are pretty shitty.

i say this having run three different ones and comparing them to Bell cores.

This would be a whole lot easier to decide if no mkturbo existed. Thanks lars

I'm just not sure about the vibrant cores compared to the Begi or Precision cores. The internal fin density doesn't seem as high as they could be, but I dunno.

I'm running a used Begi #3 and have thought about switching to the Vibrant. Still on the fence.

If you already have a begi #3 core, why would you change?

Some piping adjustments and the asymmetry is killing my OCD. It would really be just one of those final touch things which is asinine since the car isn't running right now.

are you going to pull your a/c just to mount the IC dead center?

paint it black and youll never notice it again.

Vibrant/Fab9 has an intercooler that's A/C compatible. My A/C doesn't work anyhow as I need the two hoses that run to the r134a compressor.

I'm tempted to pull A/C completely, but I know.....Virginia humidity

:ugh: I'm mildly offended our cores are being compared to eBay's intercooler offerings. I'm sure not many have seen the two compared to each other in person but they are light years apart in quality and craftsmanship. The only level I even see them being compared on is pricing and I'll pat myself on the back for making that happen. I believe we still have the largest bolt-on core available and it's half the price of comparable units on the market.

In addition to the points mentioned previously, our cores are perfectly centered in the bumper.

So tempted. So. Tempted.

First I'll get the car running, then I'll probably order when I am ready to clean up the piping

Wait, you have a Bell intercooler and you want to change? Now that there's no new garrett cores being made Bell's probably got the best cores out there.

Surprisingly the ebay/cx racing cores dont look all that bad. Not amazing, but not like super terribad like some people make them out to be. Now the end tanks on at least the style I got leave a lot to be designed, they have no internal flow directors and they're also like 1/4" thick so the intercooler weighs a freaking ton.

Attachment 184314

Precision:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1425005077

Fab9:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1425005077

Bell:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1425005077

Ebay:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1412443457

The latest cores from Vibrant have been their newer fin design - 25% more fin density. Thus far we've only seen this on our Stage 2 cores. (left intercooler in this picture)

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1425006151

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1425006631

is this suppossed to be impressive? because it's god awful.

I'll take a pic of the Begi#3 core this evening.

also consider how well the Bell cores hold up externally.

So bell> fm> fab9> cxracing/ebay (from sticky)?

Based on what? I'm all for a heads up comparison but certainly this can not be decided based on value or quality since nothing has been mentioned about the fin density of the FM unit and we're leaving out other important details. I think size and price should also be a consideration here. To perform a proper product analysis we need a little more detail than some pictures from a dozen random sources. Price>Volume>Fin Density>Build Quality?

An international customer had an eBay intercooler shipped to me last year to ship with the rest of his order - it showed up bent. The material/build was so cheap I was able to grab it at each corner and bend it back, point being - pictures don't show the overall build quality. I'm confident anyone who owns one of our intercoolers can confirm the build quality is that of a premium intercooler.

I do not believe that ebay intercooler story. You could use mine as a jacking point, then take it off the car and use it as a tent stake hammer, then put it back on the car and use it as a bumper beam. The thing is seriously make from 1/4" thick aluminum its fucking dumb, it weighs more than my radiator full of water.

Wowowow, there is absolutely no way to compare 2 eBay intercoolers without them being side by side.I've heard if you order on Monday their stronger than if you place your order on Wednesday. But Friday gives you the best turbulators.

Oh man, now I'm making things up? :giggle: His username on the forum is Landrew. There is NO way you could do that with the eBay unit he had shipped here. The entire core had a lean to it.

Regardless, my point is - there isn't enough information to put our intercoolers behind the FM units. It might be a good place to be (I've never seen an FM unit in person) one way or another, still it can't be decided based on this thread or the information in it.

Ummm, my post had a question mark at the end. Wasnt trying to hurt feelings. I just want the best buy for my dollars spent.

Completely understand, but when things are written on the internet people believe them.

I'd honestly like to hear from someone who has used both our intercooler and the FM product.

Raises hand. Yours is lighter, better fin density, easier to mount, looks better in the mouth of the car, and has given me steady AIT temps.

There is so much conjecture in this thread my head hurts.:facepalm:

My ebay unit is a piece of shit that wouldn't even make a good paper weight, it's incredibly light. A piece of shit tube-fin with a bunch of folded over fins and decent performance. It would be perfectly fine for a street car but does get heat soaked on the track. Had I done more (some) research prior to purchase I would have known better. But it was cheap so who the fuck cares, it will get replaced eventually.

Based solely on the pictures posted, from a cooling standpoint it looks like Precision > Bell > Fab9 350hp > aidandj ebay. Oddly enough (not really) the distance from camera to core is Fab9 > Bell > aidandj ebay > Precision. If you took all 3 cores and compared them from equal distances and same angle, which one would look better? From a distance the Bell cores look surprisingly similar to the 350hp Fab9.

More fins and turbulators inside means more pressure drop? Such a statement makes sense to me but I don't know shit. Anyway, based on that logic aidandj ebay > Fab 9 350hp > Bell > Precision

Based on price aidandj ebay > Fab 9 350hp > BEGI > Precision. Bang for the buck I don't think you can beat Fab 9's price with the exception of a very specific Ebay unit.

Only one of these has internal baffles so this is easy. BEGI > *

Mounting is another easy one. Fab 9 350hp = BEGI > aidandj ebay = Precision

Durability is tough. mt.net wisdom says BEGI are durable as fuck and don't bend fins. Fab 9 are still pretty new and don't have a long track record. aidandj ebay is brand fucking new and made in china so probably mediocre. Yes I have no basis for that so suck it. I've only seen pictures on one Precision core, Savington's, and it looked fine after lots of track abuse. So this seems reasonable to me: BEGI > Precision > Fab 9 350 hp > aidandj ebay. I suspect all but the ebay unit will last a lifetime, and well the ebay is cheap so fuck it. Replace it with another down the line if it falls apart.

Build quality is easy. * > ebay

The absolute most important quality has yet to be discussed in this thread.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1425085368
Fab 9 350hp > *

And since this is miataturbo.net there can be only one choice. Fab 9.

If you are like me and do shit as cheap as you can and would rather spend way too long attempting to engineer something then eBay is the way to go. Any other situation I would pick FAB9. The outlets are in a perfect place, the mounting solution is awesome. And FAB9 have gotten a really good reputation of support and timeliness, something other companies can't always live up to.

I put effort into my eBay intercooler because I value my time at next to nothing because I do this for fun and have extra time as a student. If I properly valued my time then it would be FAB9 hands down.

So e-cool (tm) or half radiator/half intercooler? :D

So help me the next person to bring up a half and half setup is getting a box full of rubber dicks sent to their workplace.

Just ordered half radiators to do some scientific back to back testing. If Hondas can do it then Miata can too!

I believe FM switched to Chinese made cores a few years back. Around the time of switching to silicone pipes

Well that would explain why they cost less now. Can anyone confirm?

Looks like box o dicks is going to aidandj. Hehe

The dollar value of ebay intercoolers I ordered and returned before I got a good one > any brand name IC

AFAIK all the ebay tube/fin deals are crap. I've seen pictures of mediocore looking ones, but the ones I got were thick tube extrusions with jack for surface area. They weigh a ton with thick tubes and end tanks but still easily twist and rack side to side.

The first bar/plate I ordered is the ebay IC pictured in this thread.

Yeah, credit for the eBay intercooler goes to deezums. I have just been writing about it and spreading the word.

Bring on the dicks.

:fawk:

yes, but the hidden value in all this is that between myself and aidan, you have saved(us) a few hundred dollars

And Vlad, and a few others lol.

just make sure not to use e-cool cause it will freeze your engine
e-cool+ebay intercooler = cure for global warming

It's me!

I bought that ebay IC a long time ago when I was really stretching a dollar. I really, really wanted the Fab9 IC and he was shipping me other stuff anyways so it would have been the optimum time to buy it. I love the mounting tabs and I do remember when I pulled my car apart that my old IC had somehow cracked a DIY steel mounting tab so I was thinking how good a nice custom fit one would be. Plus wouldn't you know it that Vibrant is a Canadian company. But I just ran way over budget at that time. Plus I have a soft spot for cheap eBay stuff as well, just ask my bicycles! Anyways, I'm still a long ways from the IC part of my build but let me get a picture of it next week and give it some twist. I do remember it had a slight bow in its length.
I tried to justify it because where I live we might get an 80 F day 10 times a year at most so I was assuming that cooling wasn't as critical and I'm street driving it as well. Right??

Here she is:
I tried to twist it but it would not budge. Perhaps If I mounted one side into something solid it would, but it felt pretty stiff.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1425446086
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1425446086
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1425446086
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1425446086
Front
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1425446086

When do you expect to get the newer fin design on the Stage 1 cores? I would love to pick a stage 1 intercooler up with the current tax sale, but would be willing to wait a few weeks or months for the improved core.

I don't think there is a good answer for this one or if they will be doing this with the 350hp cores (although I imagine they will). However if you'd like to purchase it under the Tax Season promo and have us hold the order please send me a PM with an order number and I'll flag it.

I pulled the trigger and got the Stage 1 Fab9 (Vibrant) intercooler. It showed up this past weekend.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1427112671

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1427112671

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1427112671

This guy is real beafy and super strong. I wouldn't doubt some of the claims that you can jack the front end up with this thing :). The intercooler itself is very well made and you can see the internal core is of much higher quality than most ebay cores. My only concern is that the fin count internally seems pretty low. As you can see in the pic with the ligh shining through the intercooler, each internal passage is nice and straight with no fins or protrusions into the air flow. This is awesome to ensure the minimum pressure drop accross the intercooler, but as an mechanical engineering I am concerned that this will reduce the heat transfer between the inside and outside air since turbulent air moving through those passages will transfer more heat from the hot charge air to the outside air.

The core is 18" long (FAB9 site claims 20") which is 50% longer than the core of my current old BEGI intercooler at 12". I wasn't looking for more HP capacity, just more surface area to transfer the additional heat for track use.

I know the BEGI cores are more efficient, but by how much? Will the 50% of increased frontal area of the FAB9 at a reduced efficiency still give me more cooling capacity than the smaller BEGI with higher cooling efficiency?

Here are some pics comparing the outside of the two intercoolers.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1427112671
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1427112671

Here is a picture of the inside BEGI core fins. I know its a crappy pictyure, but you should be able to tell how the internal fins are shaped to cause a turbulent path of the air to pass through the core, similar to how the external air fins look like. This is the main difference that I am concerned about.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1427112700

Lastly here is a weight comparison of the two. The Fab9 is right at 11 pounds and the BEGI came in at ~7.5lbs. Just for info.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1427112700
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1427112700

No doubt the FAB9 is much better quality than any crappy ebay intercooler.

I am just concerned that I will not be gaining that much more cooling effeciency due to the lower cooling fin count with no internal fins or flow disturbing measures. I might have to return this one for now and wait until a newer core comes out like the updated one avaliable with the Stage 2 cores (see post #20). The pictures below show the staggered fin design that I was expecting.

Also, the Fab9 inlet/outlets are 2.5" while begi is 2.25"

This was a nice surprise when my FM pipes wouldn't adapt over. I ended up hacking it up and just built a custom charge pipe with odds and ends.


If the stage 1 utilized the newer core design, and Fab could offer an intercooler with a pre-welded IAT bung on the end tank, that might tip the scale for me :p

Psyber were your FM pipes the one piece silicone or older? My FM one piece pipes are 2.5" and worked perfect.

FM pipes are 2.5"
FM and FAB intercoolers have the same size inlet/outlets

They had to be modified to work on my begi#3 which is 2.25"

My old BEGI intercooler has 2" inlet/outlet. The newer BEGI intercoolers might have slightly larger connections.

Midpack, why did you picture our water core? I think precision shares the same core maker.

Once the turbulators, tube length and flow area are well in hand, the streamlining and air distribution of the end caps needs getting straight. I love seeing those square boxes sitting on the ends of a core.

Yielding to enormous (?) pressure, I did move the alpha/omega IC to the center. I agree, it looks better. It's just a bit tighter fit up with the longer tube core we use than others.

corky

2.5 inch tubes ? The 1000 horsepower Miata would certainly be a hoot.

cork

<3 from the 2" tube club. :makeout:

Corky, you are the same Bell as Bell Intercoolers - Custom Intercooler and Core Solutions correct? I know you both are in Texas and share an 830 area code and Manta is showing the same address for both Bell Experimental Group and Bell Intercoolers...

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1427475631 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1427476150

Then why is the bell intercooler site like 1000x prettier

Yes, basically. There is some legal split between the two, but Corky is involved with both and they are in buildings right next to each other.