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Old 07-05-2012, 10:52 PM   #21
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its a log manifold

it doesn't have a collector you plebe

and all that matters is that gas is vented before it hits the turbine wheel

plus

optimal my ***. if you make 350hp i will buy you a spotted dick eurotrash.
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Old 07-10-2012, 06:32 AM   #22
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All 4 of the runners meet in a single location. I’ll give you that it isn’t all pointing the same way and pretty like a tube mani, but it still “collects” before going into the turbo.

Also, this discussion was more about if having the wg on the turbo or manifold, not specifically my FM one.

I’m not aiming for 350hp, but I will let you buy me a spotted dick though x
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:03 PM   #23
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lol

good read more, noob

and then ask yourself how much money you're willing to spend on a cast manifold.
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:53 PM   #24
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I've already got an FM manifold. I'm well aware of the restrictions, but I'm not after big numbers.

the tracks in the UK just don't really work with huge power. for the money I spent on the FM kit, it was a no brainer.

I never once said I wanted big power, just if a ewg fitted on an fm mani - so I'm not sure where this argument came from...
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:26 PM   #25
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I'm just trying to be realistic. It honestly does not sound seem like you can warrant the need for an external wastegate since you want to keep the power moderate. Unless you get the new turbine housing from FM, there really is no other "clean" way of doing it. I tried and I failed. The cost of modding the manifold to work with even my 38mm wastegate was going stupid.

However, I run an external wastegate on my current 200hp setup and I wouldn't have it any other way. But that manifold was designed for one.

As far as placement goes, the "FM" logo would be perfect. Turbine housing mounted wastegates work fine, too. The new FM manifold is actually a nice piece for being a cast log.

Edit: just go hardcore with it
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:33 PM   #26
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Fair play. I’m well aware that it is slightly over the top to run an ewg on a 250hp setup, but as I said before – if it was simple to do, I may as well.

Adding a wg that I already have by drilling some holes is easier than fabbing up a new bracket for the actuator (and ewg’s are awesome).

If it looks remotely troublesome though, I’m going to keep it internal and just grumble about the actuator.
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:40 PM   #27
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I feel like a broken record. I did the measurements for my "smaller" wastegate and it wasn't even close.

Have to taken measurements yet? I should have asked that on page 1.
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:35 PM   #28
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no i havent. the weather here is ----, and im not going near the garage until it gets sunny.

allso this is a way off, as i need to build the engine up first, so im not in a rush.
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:25 PM   #29
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fitting the WG to the manifold is the easy part.

making the pipe to dump it back into the exhaust is the part chock full of suck.

Here is my Begi S5: I accept it, although it is an interesting way to do it. (WG flange faces down)
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:54 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarletRick View Post
Playing devil's advocate:

What difference does it make if the wg is on the collector or another 2 inches down into the housing?

From what I've read from people who know a lot more about turbos than I do, this is an 'optimal' place for boost control - as close to the turbine as possible.
I think the real question is "What do you percieve or think a collector is"?

Look it is your money and with every percieved optimum setup you learn something. I have been doing this sort of thing since '85 and my tuner/friend/engine builder has F1 experience yet that is neither here nor there. Do some research and see how many people are running a turbine/wastegate housing.

Boost should be controlled BEFORE it hits the turbine but then again I only have 27yr's of turbo experience so what do I know.
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Old 07-12-2012, 06:46 AM   #31
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It is controlled before it hits the turbine? it is literally about an inch past the flange, just a bit closer to the turbine, not in/on it or after it. That would be stupid.

look:



I honestly don't see how that placement will be overly troublesome when compared to the ease of installation. There are arguments that this is actually a better spot, as it is closer to the turbine. The only issues i have heard of is with BIG turbos on high HP motors (600+) the boost can be slightly bouncy due to the slight changes in the AR when the gates opens - but this is at 30+ PSI... So isn't really worth talking about in context.

I still think this is a good route, I just don't like the fact the AR is .71, which is a bit too big for what I want - hence the thread.

That said, I put the WG up against the mani last night, and it will be too much faffing about to get it cleanly installed as the flat area isn't large enough.

I think a nice fit would be a big hole so you could fit a pipe in neatly, then weld a flange to that so its raises it half an inch, similar to how fwMiata has his.

That said, I think I'm going to keep it on an actuator for now. If I feel I can live with a bigger AR, I'll get the ATP housing.
Attached Thumbnails
FMII - External gate on manifold.-atp-hsg-043_450-2.jpg   FMII - External gate on manifold.-atp-hsg-043_450-1.jpg  
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Old 07-12-2012, 07:40 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fwMiata View Post
fitting the WG to the manifold is the easy part.

making the pipe to dump it back into the exhaust is the part chock full of suck.

Here is my Begi S5: I accept it, although it is an interesting way to do it. (WG flange faces down)

My begi s5 manifold cracked where the stupid weld els were welded to the dumb cast iron. that is a crappy bond. begi fail #9892389849389112


OP your reasons for running EWG are fukking retarded. Because Synapse WG is baller? You're a fukking moron. You're going to die. Trust me.
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Old 07-12-2012, 07:59 AM   #33
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It was more to do with the fact I have one, and prefer using EWGs over IWGs, as they are better.

And I don't think you're in a position to be throwing "moron" about ^^
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:25 AM   #34
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I'm gonna do an EWG swap on my cast FM manifold and then you guys will be like "wow, what a slick setup...that StarletRick guy was on to something".
Instead of reading this: "awwww shiii nugggzzz ur a moron, whatdafug yabadabactuvb".
You'll read this: "what a great use of an old boring manifold to adapt it into something different that works REALLY well."
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:30 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarletRick View Post
It was more to do with the fact I have one, and prefer using EWGs over IWGs, as they are better.
If you had an ECU out of a Toyota Camry, and you knew it was better than the ECU for the Miata, would you swap in a Toyota Camry engine?
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:23 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooger03 View Post
If you had an ECU out of a Toyota Camry, and you knew it was better than the ECU for the Miata, would you swap in a Toyota Camry engine?
ok?

All I'm saying is that I have a wastegate, they are better than internal ones, and if it was easy/simple to fit.

and tbh, if an ecu out of another car was easily available/free, better, and very easy to fit and install; you would be using it, as well as everyone else here.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:13 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasmr2 View Post
I think the real question is "What do you percieve or think a collector is"?

Look it is your money and with every percieved optimum setup you learn something. I have been doing this sort of thing since '85 and my tuner/friend/engine builder has F1 experience yet that is neither here nor there. Do some research and see how many people are running a turbine/wastegate housing.

Boost should be controlled BEFORE it hits the turbine but then again I only have 27yr's of turbo experience so what do I know.
If you actually do have data showing that the EWG placement on the housing but just before the turbine scroll is 'bad', please show it. Otherwise that plain lack of logic makes you seem dumb.

Back on topic.
I think it would be a great idea for the OP to put his EWG on the FM manifold. He has it already, it should be simple. I would consider the same thing. Plumbing a EWG dump is simple there, those who say otherwise haven't routed a difficult dump to have a good reference to how easy that location is to route. It's too bad the OP says it won't fit...Does your wastegate have a non-standard 2 bolt flange? Or is the physical size of your actuator housing too big?

Ignore the vbands. The turbo is in the same exact spot at the FM & BEGI cast manifolds. Because I had vband EWG I could rotate it to make the fabrication easier, but even if it were straight out there is still lots of room for fabrication.



Looks like FM planned to rotate it like I did:
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FMII - External gate on manifold.-begireplver216.jpg   FMII - External gate on manifold.-turbo-manifold-5.jpg  
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:40 PM   #38
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Thanks Tim.

Looking at that CAD photo, it looks like they changed it slightly on production.

The top of the mani looks like this:



And you just don’t quite have the area to get nice holes drilled. They would be on the edges of the raised area etc.

I just remembered I have an old greddy 38mm wastegate at home somewhere, that’s a 4 bolt square flange…

that might be a winner…

I’ll take pics and see how it looks.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:42 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdgen View Post
You'll read this: "what a great use of an old boring manifold to adapt it into something different that works REALLY well."
lol
tha'ts a cool story, and Ima let you finish, but you're really not doing anything new or exciting. people have done this many times over, and its do-able, so I dunno why people are making such a fuss about it in here.

if you have the skeelz, do it.
if you don't, don't.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:12 PM   #40
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Jesus ------- christ has anyone read a damn thing I've written in this thread?!

38mm wastegate WILL NOT FIT ON THE ------- MANIFOLD

FM DID NOT LEAVE ENOUGH SPACE FOR A 2 BOLT FLANGE, IT WILL HANG OFF THE SIDES AND IT WILL NOT WORK

From Page 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viperormiata
That picture you're linking (even though I can't see it) is NOT a good representation of the new manifold's space you have to work with. I learned that quick when I started measuring with my spare EWG gasket.

You will run into some space issues. My 38mm flange was going to hang off the edge of the FM "logo" area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarletRick View Post
Looking at that CAD photo, it looks like they changed it slightly on production.

And you just don’t quite have the area to get nice holes drilled. They would be on the edges of the raised area etc.

FUKING READ YOU STUPID GODDAMN NOOB
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