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Old 07-12-2012, 01:43 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by StarletRick View Post
It was more to do with the fact I have one, and prefer using EWGs over IWGs, as they are better.

And I don't think you're in a position to be throwing "moron" about ^^
Ok, then how about this. You're retarded.

No, for 250hp, your stupid EWG is not better than an IWG. You're pointlessly adding complexity to your setup. It's not going to make a damn difference in power and your shiit is just going to be less reliable. And you're going to have to make new parts.

How about I give you $200 to crush your synapse wastegate with a sledgehammer?
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Old 07-13-2012, 01:32 AM   #42
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If you actually do have data showing that the EWG placement on the housing but just before the turbine scroll is 'bad', please show it. Otherwise that plain lack of logic makes you seem dumb.

Back on topic.
I think it would be a great idea for the OP to put his EWG on the FM manifold. He has it already, it should be simple. I would consider the same thing. Plumbing a EWG dump is simple there, those who say otherwise haven't routed a difficult dump to have a good reference to how easy that location is to route. It's too bad the OP says it won't fit...Does your wastegate have a non-standard 2 bolt flange? Or is the physical size of your actuator housing too big?

Ignore the vbands. The turbo is in the same exact spot at the FM & BEGI cast manifolds. Because I had vband EWG I could rotate it to make the fabrication easier, but even if it were straight out there is still lots of room for fabrication.



Looks like FM planned to rotate it like I did:
Tim,
If you are contradicting my input why are you posting pics of setup's of non-turbine housing wg's? Then you go on to say "ignore v-bands"? I have used v-bands with great success and less headaches yet then again I do not know what I am talking about.

Frankly the info given by self-imposed guru's such as yourself is misleading and blasphemy. Alot of people here are so narrowminded and think just because they have turbo'd a Miata their opinion should not be questioned, how small minded is that?

Anyone here who wants a truthfull/experienced opinion can email me.

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Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Ok, then how about this. You're retarded.

No, for 250hp, your stupid EWG is not better than an IWG. You're pointlessly adding complexity to your setup. It's not going to make a damn difference in power and your shiit is just going to be less reliable. And you're going to have to make new parts.

How about I give you $200 to crush your synapse wastegate with a sledgehammer?
Dude I'll send you $200 so you can check your ego and stop acting like you are a God, ok?
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Old 07-13-2012, 03:49 AM   #43
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I think the pictures were to demonstrate that the wg location is a good one. This thread was about that after all, the wg on the turbo was a side discussion. Hence the 'back on topic'.

And the ignore vband comment was referring to the photo, not that we should all not use them. I think all the absurd stuff he makes does, so it would be a dumb statement if he meant that.

I'd be interested in your experienced opinion on the wg turbo housings though, as I wouldn't write that off in future as an option, and I can't find anything but positive views online for our kind of application.

Also, faeflora, I would gladly accept 200 dollars for that. I accept PayPal if you'll cover the fee.
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Old 07-13-2012, 09:58 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by texasmr2 View Post
Tim,
If you are contradicting my input why are you posting pics of setup's of non-turbine housing wg's? Then you go on to say "ignore v-bands"? I have used v-bands with great success and less headaches yet then again I do not know what I am talking about.

Frankly the info given by self-imposed guru's such as yourself is misleading and blasphemy. Alot of people here are so narrowminded and think just because they have turbo'd a Miata their opinion should not be questioned, how small minded is that?

Anyone here who wants a truthfull/experienced opinion can email me.



Dude I'll send you $200 so you can check your ego and stop acting like you are a God, ok?
Check yourself, tex. Your ego is overstepping its bounds. Your inability to interpret the context of a conversation doesn't give you an excuse to have diarrhea of the mouth, regardless of how many decades of experience you have in the field of conversation. Next time, keep the $hitty breath to yourself until you've correctly understood the conversation, nobody likes diarrhea breath.
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Old 07-13-2012, 03:08 PM   #45
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Next time, keep the $hitty breath to yourself until you've correctly understood the conversation, nobody likes diarrhea breath.
Breath stinks cause of talking out of a$$!
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Old 07-14-2012, 03:08 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by StarletRick View Post
I'd be interested in your experienced opinion on the wg turbo housings though, as I wouldn't write that off in future as an option, and I can't find anything but positive views online for our kind of application.
Rick,
I have no personal experience with turbine housings w/ew as my past setups had the wg mount on the exhaust manifold centered up to collect the exhaust from all four runners. I will also attempt to find some data on that particular setup and will let everyone. I am all for trying new setups guys and I think it is good to have debates and I also believe in facts and proof so I do not mean to sound like I am hating . Every setup is different depending on someones desired outcome.

I think we are all on the same page here and that is gaining knowledge so on that note I will kindly offer all an olive branch of truece. Hopefully we can move past this and I will make a conscious effort to be less confrontational. I enjoy this community simple for the fact that we are all boost heads.

I hope everyone has a great and safe weekend and I'll try to gather what info I can about the turbine/wg setup.

__________________________________________________ _________________________________

You have a great setup but your approach needs some work, just friendly advice.

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Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Ok, then how about this. You're retarded.
Do you honestly believe it is ok for you to be so disrespectful? I'm sure you are a bigger person than that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
No, for 250hp, your stupid EWG is not better than an IWG. You're pointlessly adding complexity to your setup. It's not going to make a damn difference in power and your shiit is just going to be less reliable. And you're going to have to make new parts.
I disagree and agree. For 250hp an IWG is just fine but then again an EWG would also suffice especially since we should all know by now that hp is addicting so with an EWG it could it could be less expenditure as it is already part of the system once the 250hp goal is reached and wants to be exceeded.

One thing you failed to mention, but I do it all the time, is that wg's come in different sizes and with different internal springs for different boost settings. Just thought I would bring these important items up. No harm no foul no disrespect.

Last edited by texasmr2; 07-14-2012 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 07-14-2012, 04:12 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by texasmr2 View Post
I disagree and agree. For 250hp an IWG is just fine but then again an EWG would also suffice especially since we should all know by now that hp is addicting so with an EWG it could it could be less expenditure as it is already part of the system once the 250hp goal is reached and wants to be exceeded.

If he wants more than 250hp ever then he should use a different manifold.
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Old 07-15-2012, 08:15 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
If he wants more than 250hp ever then he should use a different manifold.
I'm with ya man and this just goes to show how crazy things can get when going turbo. I always recommend getting advice from tuners/shops and from people such as yourself who have traveled this road.

I am finding just bits and pieces of info on the net as I have not yet had the chance to call some of the well known shops or the people I know in the industry. I did run across this comment while searching and it seem's to have merit,

The main problem with putting the wastegate there is that it is actually altering the A/R of the turbine housing (i.e. the area in the section is increasing and decreasing as the wastegate opens, which has an overall effect on the average area/radius of the turbine housing.

I've seen a couple people run such setups in situations where they could not fit an external wastegate, or when they had a nice cast manifold that did not have provisions for one an EWG (I was in said situation). These people complained of boost fluctuations, creep, sag, you name it.

This is an instance where theory breaks down. It may seem like it would be the best place, but in reality other factors influence the ability of the wastegate to vent in that location. A properly angled and well flowing tube off of the collector (ie exhuast manifold) will always be the most effective place for a single wastegate.


Now take this for what it is, someone elses opinion that just happens to agree with my opinion yet I am not saying it is right or wrong. It would be great if we could setup a dyno session on a car that could monitor all aspects if not just for fun.
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:56 AM   #49
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I think external wastegates and open dump pipes are cool.

But I would not drill a cast manifold to add one, I would sell the mani and put the money into a manifold with provisions for ewg.

Or I would stick with iwg, because ease of use. I have noticed in my readings that a lot of boost flutuations are caused by vac or exhaust leaks, or other things like that.

I am a non turboed noob though. So ymmv.

On a different note, that all v band turbo setup is sweet.
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Old 07-16-2012, 05:31 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by texasmr2 View Post
Tim,
If you are contradicting my input why are you posting pics of setup's of non-turbine housing wg's? Then you go on to say "ignore v-bands"? I have used v-bands with great success and less headaches yet then again I do not know what I am talking about.

Frankly the info given by self-imposed guru's such as yourself is misleading and blasphemy. Alot of people here are so narrowminded and think just because they have turbo'd a Miata their opinion should not be questioned, how small minded is that?

Anyone here who wants a truthfull/experienced opinion can email me.
He was posting the picture to show that an external wastegate in that location will fit in the engine bay and there will be plenty of room for fitting a pipe to the downpipe. He never said vbands are ----.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:20 AM   #51
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He was posting the picture to show that an external wastegate in that location will fit in the engine bay and there will be plenty of room for fitting a pipe to the downpipe. He never said vbands are ----.
Yes I realized that after the fact and rereading that part yet never failed to apologize so on that note I publicly apologize Tim .

Thanks for pointing that out.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:32 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by texasmr2 View Post
Yes I realized that after the fact and rereading that part yet never failed to apologize so on that note I publicly apologize Tim .

Thanks for pointing that out.
No problem, we cool.

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Originally Posted by texasmr2 View Post

The main problem with putting the wastegate there is that it is actually altering the A/R of the turbine housing (i.e. the area in the section is increasing and decreasing as the wastegate opens, which has an overall effect on the average area/radius of the turbine housing.

I've seen a couple people run such setups in situations where they could not fit an external wastegate, or when they had a nice cast manifold that did not have provisions for one an EWG (I was in said situation). These people complained of boost fluctuations, creep, sag, you name it.

This is an instance where theory breaks down. It may seem like it would be the best place, but in reality other factors influence the ability of the wastegate to vent in that location. A properly angled and well flowing tube off of the collector (ie exhuast manifold) will always be the most effective place for a single wastegate.

I can see this having some merit in theory actually, thanks for the research and post. I prefer actual first hand account and/or data showing it instead of adding to internet rumor (a.k.a. gospel), but I'm sure that's difficult to find as these turbine housings aren't exactly common at shops that have the tools to measure the effect. When I first read your initial posts it seemed like you or your F1 tuner friend had first hand experience with that EWG location based off how strongly you were opposed to that idea.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:59 AM   #53
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No problem, we cool.
Thanks Tim I appreciate that .

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I can see this having some merit in theory actually, thanks for the research and post. I prefer actual first hand account and/or data showing it instead of adding to internet rumor (a.k.a. gospel), but I'm sure that's difficult to find as these turbine housings aren't exactly common at shops that have the tools to measure the effect. When I first read your initial posts it seemed like you or your F1 tuner friend had first hand experience with that EWG location based off how strongly you were opposed to that idea.
Once again what I typed and meant left alot to be desired as to my true intent so my apology to everyone for that.

Yes in theory it makes sense but as we all know theory holds no merit to real world data. I am uncertain if my friend has first hand experience with them but I am almost certain he is atleast familiar with them in some aspect. I am not really opposed to them as they may be fine for certain app's, my concern is simply based upon the concept of what an EWG's main purpose is but then again IWG's debunk this criteria.

What I was shooting for was the concern of 'overspeed' of said turbine 'life' and the way I see it is that this concern is eliminated with exhaust/boost pressure being regulated prior to the turbo. Then again this is simply just my personal opinion with no solid data to back it up.

I am by no means a turbo guru in any sense of the word I just know what has worked with great success and is still the standard fashion/application.
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