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Old 01-25-2011, 04:39 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post

Yes. Me.

Also no need for an egt gauge unless you are running WI and its still not 100pct necessary
I'd run an EGT. Oh I mean I DO run an EGT.

helps tons with tuning your timing.
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Old 01-25-2011, 06:07 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
I'd run an EGT. Oh I mean I DO run an EGT.

helps tons with tuning your timing.
Please explain how it helps with tuning timing?

I'm fairly ignorant and I don't know much about tuning timing other than:

Keep advancing until ping or if on a dyno until power goes down and you're past MBT. Back off a few degrees for safety.

For tuning timing, I'd think that knowing by knowing your spark angle, AFR, and having a knock sensor, EGT would not be any help UNLESS one of your other sensors was not working.
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Old 01-25-2011, 06:39 PM   #43
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I just have a oil pressure gauge, boost gauge, and a wideband.
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Old 01-25-2011, 06:52 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Please explain how it helps with tuning timing?

I'm fairly ignorant and I don't know much about tuning timing other than:

Keep advancing until ping or if on a dyno until power goes down and you're past MBT. Back off a few degrees for safety.

For tuning timing, I'd think that knowing by knowing your spark angle, AFR, and having a knock sensor, EGT would not be any help UNLESS one of your other sensors was not working.
lets see.. will a 1.8L miata at 400hp be at MBT at peak torque? maybe. but if not, you'll be backing off timing and want to know where starting the burn so late means fire roasting your valves and exhaust manifold.

see timing is the start of the spark event, right? it takes a finite amount of time to burn an air fuel mixture. normally it happens in the combustion chamber just in time for it to not be going strong when the exhaust valve opens. if you retard timing, you essentially start the burn later in the engine cycle and you push that finite timespan closer to the exhaust valve event. too late and you get hot firey gases in your exhaust manifold.

similarly, different air-fuel ratio mixtures burn at different speeds and heat levels. a leaner mixture burns hotter and slower than an ideal mixture. but a too-rich mix can burn slowly too. or it can ignite in the manifold.

it's just something I'd want to keep an eye on when I'm pushing the knock limits of even a built motor.
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Old 01-25-2011, 07:21 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
lets see.. will a 1.8L miata at 400hp be at MBT at peak torque? maybe. but if not, you'll be backing off timing and want to know where starting the burn so late means fire roasting your valves and exhaust manifold.

see timing is the start of the spark event, right? it takes a finite amount of time to burn an air fuel mixture. normally it happens in the combustion chamber just in time for it to not be going strong when the exhaust valve opens. if you retard timing, you essentially start the burn later in the engine cycle and you push that finite timespan closer to the exhaust valve event. too late and you get hot firey gases in your exhaust manifold.

similarly, different air-fuel ratio mixtures burn at different speeds and heat levels. a leaner mixture burns hotter and slower than an ideal mixture. but a too-rich mix can burn slowly too. or it can ignite in the manifold.

it's just something I'd want to keep an eye on when I'm pushing the knock limits of even a built motor.

Hmm well given a set of tuning best practices like:

don't run richer than 10:1
run no leaner than 11.8:1 in full boost
run no less than 6 degrees timing in full boost

Isn't it fairly unlikely one would burn exhaust valves and start melting pistons?

The only situation I can think of other than WI tuning that EGT would be useful is:

tuning and AFR timing for cruise or any sustained RPM application such as extended top speed runs where the motor sits in a fuel/timing cell for long periods of time.
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Old 01-25-2011, 07:34 PM   #46
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Engine is a 99 bored .40 over, 1mm larger intake and exhaust valves, MazdaSpeed intake cam, Fidanza adjustable exhaust cam gear, Ferrea valve train kit, 10:1 comp Weisco pistons, Carillo H beam rods, ARP studs, OEM ported and polished intake manifold, 65mm throttle body, full engine balance, Bosch 044 fuel pump, m-tuned fuel rail, Garrett T3/T4E Turbo; .50 trim compressor with 76 trim turbine wheel, .63 A/R, 3 in dp and exhaust, ramhorn tubular mani.

So you dont think 400 whp will be possible?
Get rid of that turbo from 1945 and you've got a good setup.

Running E85?
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Old 01-25-2011, 08:47 PM   #47
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His IP suggests he has more money than you.
and this is why he is called the brain...but some might see it as common sense, as i do most of the time
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Old 01-25-2011, 09:50 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by scottyd View Post
Get rid of that turbo from 1945 and you've got a good setup.

Running E85?
Recomendations?? Anyone?

No e85 btw for now
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Old 01-25-2011, 09:57 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Please explain how it helps with tuning timing?

I'm fairly ignorant and I don't know much about tuning timing other than:

Keep advancing until ping or if on a dyno until power goes down and you're past MBT. Back off a few degrees for safety.

For tuning timing, I'd think that knowing by knowing your spark angle, AFR, and having a knock sensor, EGT would not be any help UNLESS one of your other sensors was not working.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Hmm well given a set of tuning best practices like:

don't run richer than 10:1
run no leaner than 11.8:1 in full boost
run no less than 6 degrees timing in full boost

Isn't it fairly unlikely one would burn exhaust valves and start melting pistons?

The only situation I can think of other than WI tuning that EGT would be useful is:

tuning and AFR timing for cruise or any sustained RPM application such as extended top speed runs where the motor sits in a fuel/timing cell for long periods of time.
best practice is to have a verifiable source of truth about the temperature of the gases coming out of the head while tuning for any of it.

some people prefer to run more boost and less timing to increase power over MBT and less boost.
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Old 01-25-2011, 10:00 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by spd579 View Post
Recomendations?? Anyone?

No e85 btw for now
Something that'll actually spool. Garrett 3071 with the GTX wheel or one of the new BW turbos
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Old 01-25-2011, 10:13 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by spd579 View Post
Recomendations?? Anyone?

No e85 btw for now
Who made your ramhorn mani? Slutty Pics?
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Old 01-25-2011, 10:21 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by scottyd View Post
Something that'll actually spool. Garrett 3071 with the GTX wheel or one of the new BW turbos
So what kind of spool could I really expect for double the price??? 500 rpms sooner?
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Old 01-25-2011, 10:22 PM   #53
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Who made your ramhorn mani? Slutty Pics?
Trying to keep it kinda hush hush until its finished....
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Old 01-25-2011, 10:23 PM   #54
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So what kind of spool could I really expect for double the price??? 500 rpms sooner?
I'd guess closer to 1k. The Volvo guys that run those on a 2.3 don't see full spool until ~4k.
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Old 01-25-2011, 10:32 PM   #55
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Depends on what the car is used for. For the street I would want:
-water temp
-water pressure light
-oil pressure gauge + light
-wideband
-boost w/ ECU overboost protection
-egt

Voltage can be logged through the ECU.

For a 400whp track car, add:
-oil temp
-tranny temp
-diff temp
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Old 01-26-2011, 12:35 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Hmm well given a set of tuning best practices like:

don't run richer than 10:1
run no leaner than 11.8:1 in full boost
run no less than 6 degrees timing in full boost
That's a pretty good set of conservative tuning numbers to follow, and will most likely not result in high EGT and therefore no burnt out valves. However you can't tune conservatively if you want 4 times the stock power of an engine.
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:22 AM   #57
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dont forget this one... tells you how much time it took to crash your car cause you where looking at all your gauges...



boost
WB
EGT
fuel pressure
oil pressure
oil temp
water temp
AIT
and many more...

see how many you can cram in the car and then choose the ones that matter the most and fill the spots up...
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:03 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by spd579 View Post
So what kind of spool could I really expect for double the price??? 500 rpms sooner?

Benefits aren't only at the bottom end in spoolup.

With twinscroll you can also run a much bigger A/R housing than you could otherwise. And because of that, there is more top end on the turbine as well.
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:09 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Benefits aren't only at the bottom end in spoolup.

With twinscroll you can also run a much bigger A/R housing than you could otherwise. And because of that, there is more top end on the turbine as well.
I would need another mani for a twin scroll though, right?
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Old 01-26-2011, 11:46 AM   #60
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Yah..

Read this:

http://www.modified.com/tech/modp-09...ign/index.html

And here is an explanatory pic from the article

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