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Old 06-10-2016, 12:01 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by MiataMan00 View Post
I know the efr is a great turbo, but is it with the extra money? If I go with the efr, I will purchase the Trackspeed engineering kit. Price=3k before tax. I will have to wait to save enough money for this.

My other option is the garret gt2560r. If I go this route, I will get the FM manifold and downpipe etc. Price=1700 before tax. I can get this now.
I might be biased, but here's how I see it:

$1700 + cost of high-quality oil/water lines ($290 from FM) + cost of Inconel studs ($99 for ours, FM's kit is incomplete) + cost of EBC valve (~$50) + cost of OEM-quality bypass valve ($150 from FM) + fittings to install said bypass valve ($??) + turbo inlet/outlet adapters (~$100) + likely boost creep at low power levels unless you spend time/money porting the wastegate (and there's still no guarantee it won't creep) = ~$2400, lots more assembly and fiddling, and less ultimate potential without another turbo upgrade later on...

or...

$3100, which includes the Inconel studs, the high-quality oil/coolant lines, the Inconel studs, the EBC valve, the OEM-quality bypass valve that's already installed, no need for turbo adapters, no boost creep, at all, ever, plus better response, more power, and room to grow easily to your max power goal of 300whp (and an upgrade path to 400+whp should you want that later).

Our stuff is admittedly more expensive. It's more expensive because it's better, IMO.
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Old 06-10-2016, 12:26 PM   #42
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Our stuff is admittedly more expensive. It's more expensive because it's better, IMO.
It is expensive, but at this moment I am pretty sure it is the best setup on the market. If anyone gets in contact with me about tracking a turbo miata, your setup is the only one that I recommend. I can't wait until downpipes are done and I get my TSE installed.
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Old 06-10-2016, 01:38 PM   #43
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I built my set up around a 2560. it is awesome, spools super quick and makes good power. That being said, I am running all of what it will put out now. I took three weeks to go from my goal 12 p.s.i., to about 20. Although I built it to track, I took it to the local 1/8th mile a couple weeks ago, and at 8.3 sec. and 89 mph. it felt like a slug. I will be installing some new goodies (6258??) this winter..... Boost is addicting.

Ryansmoneypit rules for turbo build:
1. Take your boost goal, and add 10 psi to that.
2. Take your budget, triple that.
3. The time you think required for completion, triple that.
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Old 06-10-2016, 02:59 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by ryansmoneypit View Post
[...]
Ryansmoneypit rules for turbo build:
1. Take your boost goal, and add 10 psi to that.
2. Take your budget, triple that.
3. The time you think required for completion, triple that.
None of this is even remotely sufficient.
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Old 06-10-2016, 03:07 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by ryansmoneypit View Post
I built my set up around a 2560. it is awesome, spools super quick and makes good power. That being said, I am running all of what it will put out now. I took three weeks to go from my goal 12 p.s.i., to about 20. Although I built it to track, I took it to the local 1/8th mile a couple weeks ago, and at 8.3 sec. and 89 mph. it felt like a slug. I will be installing some new goodies (6258??) this winter..... Boost is addicting.

Ryansmoneypit rules for turbo build:
1. Take your boost goal, and add 10 psi to that.
2. Take your budget, triple that.
3. The time you think required for completion, triple that.
run e85 and ALLTHETIMING and I bet it wont feel like a slug.
then later get a 6758 and make your 6 speed a consumable
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Old 06-10-2016, 03:14 PM   #46
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run e85 and ALLTHETIMING and I bet it wont feel like a slug.
then later get a 6758 and make your 6 speed a consumable
You are in southern Cali where E85 is readily available, to the majority of the country E85 is simply not around. There are a total of one brand of gas stations that have E85 in my area. The majority of the east cost where I drive its simply not around. The only place I have seen it at a ton of gas stations was when I was in the middle of the country where they grow corn.
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Old 06-10-2016, 03:16 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I might be biased, but here's how I see it:

$1700 + cost of high-quality oil/water lines ($290 from FM) + cost of Inconel studs ($99 for ours, FM's kit is incomplete) + cost of EBC valve (~$50) + cost of OEM-quality bypass valve ($150 from FM) + fittings to install said bypass valve ($??) + turbo inlet/outlet adapters (~$100) + likely boost creep at low power levels unless you spend time/money porting the wastegate (and there's still no guarantee it won't creep) = ~$2400, lots more assembly and fiddling, and less ultimate potential without another turbo upgrade later on...

or...

$3100, which includes the Inconel studs, the high-quality oil/coolant lines, the Inconel studs, the EBC valve, the OEM-quality bypass valve that's already installed, no need for turbo adapters, no boost creep, at all, ever, plus better response, more power, and room to grow easily to your max power goal of 300whp (and an upgrade path to 400+whp should you want that later).

Our stuff is admittedly more expensive. It's more expensive because it's better, IMO.
sold
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Old 06-10-2016, 03:25 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
The real first thing to do is start searching and reading.
Then do it again for hours and hours and hours.
Then come back and have a pretty good grasp on what it takes, and have much better questions that we will gladly answer for you, because we will see that you're serious about doing this and did the initial leg work.






It's right there in the classifieds.

I'm mostly joking though, he really doesn't need a 6758. But most end up with one after swearing up and down that they "only need 200hp". So this might save you the time and trouble. With these new tech turbos boost threshold is quite different than an old garrett.
It may not seem like I have done much research, but trust me, I have. I made this thread because when I was doing research, I could not find any answers to my question. I understand what is needed in a turbo build and how everything works. I don't really understand what a better question is. I admit, the question where I asked, "what would be needed to build the motor?", was extremely noobish. I shouldn't have asked that, but at the same time, if it wasn't for me posting that question, Pat would have never said that all I really needed was just rods. And that is the route I will be taking.


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Old 06-10-2016, 03:28 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryansmoneypit View Post
I built my set up around a 2560. it is awesome, spools super quick and makes good power. That being said, I am running all of what it will put out now. I took three weeks to go from my goal 12 p.s.i., to about 20. Although I built it to track, I took it to the local 1/8th mile a couple weeks ago, and at 8.3 sec. and 89 mph. it felt like a slug. I will be installing some new goodies (6258??) this winter..... Boost is addicting.

Ryansmoneypit rules for turbo build:
1. Take your boost goal, and add 10 psi to that.
2. Take your budget, triple that.
3. The time you think required for completion, triple that.
You must be putting down a LOT of power.
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Old 06-10-2016, 03:28 PM   #50
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OP: Do it once, do it right. Build a used block with ST pistons and some mid-range forged rods. The machine shop work I did for my block was something like 600, and that was with OS pistons. Take everything apart in advance to save on shop labor.
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Old 06-10-2016, 03:36 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by MiataMan00 View Post
It may not seem like I have done much research, but trust me, I have. I made this thread because when I was doing research, I could not find any answers to my question. I understand what is needed in a turbo build and how everything works. I don't really understand what a better question is. I admit, the question where I asked, "what would be needed to build the motor?", was extremely noobish. I shouldn't have asked that, but at the same time, if it wasn't for me posting that question, Pat would have never said that all I really needed was just rods. And that is the route I will be taking.
Rods only build is good 250-350whp depending on the tune. The stock low compression 1.8 pistons are pretty robust, but if you don't have a great tune above 300whp det can kill them.
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Old 06-10-2016, 03:39 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by MiataMan00 View Post
It may not seem like I have done much research, but trust me, I have. I made this thread because when I was doing research, I could not find any answers to my question. I understand what is needed in a turbo build and how everything works. I don't really understand what a better question is. I admit, the question where I asked, "what would be needed to build the motor?", was extremely noobish. I shouldn't have asked that, but at the same time, if it wasn't for me posting that question, Pat would have never said that all I really needed was just rods. And that is the route I will be taking.
the thing is though, it's all relative and depends entirely on your goals and plans, and you can formulate those based on a lot of research and looking at what others have done.

if you did research, great.

You ask how to build an engine, pat will say rods only, others will say if you're in there its crazy not to do pistons, others will say pump and damper is mandatory, and so on and so forth.

Then there comes the budget question: some are poor/broke, and want to just hit their power goal for absolutely the lowest price possible. Others see the benefit of quality parts and don't want to replace them later, and get the best. Others yet are somewhere in the middle.
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Old 06-10-2016, 03:47 PM   #53
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the thing is though, it's all relative and depends entirely on your goals and plans, and you can formulate those based on a lot of research and looking at what others have done.

if you did research, great.

You ask how to build an engine, pat will say rods only, others will say if you're in there its crazy not to do pistons, others will say pump and damper is mandatory, and so on and so forth.

Then there comes the budget question: some are poor/broke, and want to just hit their power goal for absolutely the lowest price possible. Others see the benefit of quality parts and don't want to replace them later, and get the best. Others yet are somewhere in the middle.
Makes sense. I guess I would place myself in the middle. If a cheaper part does the same thing as a more expensive part, and is just as good for my needs, I don't see the point in going with the more expensive part. But if the more expensive part is more durable/better, I will just spend the extra money on that part.
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Old 06-10-2016, 03:48 PM   #54
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Rods only build is good 250-350whp depending on the tune. The stock low compression 1.8 pistons are pretty robust, but if you don't have a great tune above 300whp det can kill them.
A good tune will be the first thing I do once the turbo is slapped on.
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Old 06-10-2016, 03:58 PM   #55
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parts like intercooler piping don't matter.

when it comes to turbo, the more expensive unit will literally do everything more efficiently. but if you're gauging improvement on whether it's simply hitting a peak power goal, then all the advantages won't be noticed because both can do 250hp
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Old 06-10-2016, 04:22 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
parts like intercooler piping don't matter.

when it comes to turbo, the more expensive unit will literally do everything more efficiently. but if you're gauging improvement on whether it's simply hitting a peak power goal, then all the advantages won't be noticed because both can do 250hp
I was thinking more like engine internals. I am just going to go with the efr setup. Its better. Time to go do some more research on things.
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Old 06-11-2016, 11:03 AM   #57
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MiataMan00 keep the thread updated with your choices.
I am in the same boat with you(1.8 VVT engine thou). I have messing around with Z-engineering supercharger(total s##t) bought used- never again. I did buy a new(56kmiles) engine and 6spd yesterday for build. I have MS3 and RX8 injectors already (will keep those for the new build). Also doing the research to take the right path.
I will limit myself at the moment with the injectors(will keep the RX8 ones). As I am tracking my car, looks like its safer to get the new rods.
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Old 06-11-2016, 11:25 AM   #58
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MiataMan00 I have MS3 and RX8 injectors already (will keep those for the new build). Also doing the research to take the right path.
I will limit myself at the moment with the injectors(will keep the RX8 ones). As I am tracking my car, looks like its safer to get the new rods.
If you REALLY did research as you say, then how in the hell did you end up with RX8 injectors? Cheap ing out by 200 bucks here, is a poor decision.
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Old 06-11-2016, 11:29 AM   #59
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If you REALLY did research as you say, then how in the hell did you end up with RX8 injectors? Cheap ing out by 200 bucks here, is a poor decision.
Bought them for the z-eng supercharger setup like 3-4 years ago, don't want to buy new set again if I can.
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Old 06-11-2016, 11:33 AM   #60
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Bought them for the z-eng supercharger setup like 3-4 years ago, don't want to buy new set again if I can.
Wants to build a 3-5 thousand dollar turbo/ engine combo. Doesn't want to spend 400 on injectors that could possibly save the engines life.
How smart does that sound when you read that out loud?
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