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With the GTX2860r being the latest in turbo technology, would it be preferable to the old GT2560r in a non-forged <250bhp (crank) application? Should I be worried that it would be overkill and too big and laggy, or does the advanced tech make up for it?
I have it and a 2560 on my shelf. One of these days I will have time to do some back to back dynos. If you are not ever planning on building a motor, I would probably just go with the 2560 to save some money. I don't think the GTX will spool better, but will give a much better top end.
I don't think the GTX will spool better, but will give a much better top end.
Are you talking about even on a standard block? If so, I'm willing to pay the extra for the GTX. Am I right in thinking top end power is easier on the rods, bearing in
mind the engine will be standard (for now at least)?
I think Andy Floyd once posted a comparison sheet where they spool and make the same torque up until 4k, then the GTX takes over.
Oh perfect; do you mean this?
Originally Posted by andyfloyd
Here youll like this comparison. My old 2560 vs 2860. Same dyno one year apart. We didnt rev out the 2860 all the way because HP peak was already at 6300 so thats why the 2560 graph carries out farther but the spool is damn near identical. GT2560R @18psi vs GTX2860R Gen2 @22psi Spool as you can see is identical and that just shows you how much better the GTX stuff really is.
Would this still be the case at probably half the boost?
Buy more turbo than you think you will ever need. I went from a t25, to a 2560, to a 6258 and the last really does everything better than the other two, even at low pressure non forged engines. The GTX2860 spools better than a 2560 but with way more headroom for when you want to turn it up and bend a rod so you can throw forged goodies in it and have some real fun.
Pleased to hear this; it does make sense. Disregarding price, would there be any downsides to a GTX2860r on a lowly <250bhp (crank) setup, compared to the usual TD04 or GT2560?
Pleased to hear this; it does make sense. Disregarding price, would there be any downsides to a GTX2860r on a lowly <250bhp (crank) setup, compared to the usual TD04 or GT2560?
Other then cost, probably not. I would go for it if you can swing it. I have a local customer who put down close to 400whp with a GTX2863.
In the UK a GTX2860R is getting on for twice the cost of a GT2560R. £680 vs £1,280 at the time of writing.
I think it really comes down to this... if you are certain you're not going to build a forged engine, and you won't want more than 250bhp, then get the GT2560R and don't look back.
If there's even a glimmer of doubt in your mind that you may build an engine in future, then the GTX2860R is the better choice.
I was actually in a very similar situation to yourself about 6 months ago. I was evaluating your two turbo options, and eventually after much research I was all set on the GT2560R for my totally stock 1.8 VVT and modest 220bhp power goals.... then I started reading here.
Now I have an EFR 6258, full Kraken setup and a forged engine build underway. Help me.
Hah, yes I sound exactly like you 6 months ago; there is the glimmer of hope that I might be tempted to go forged. But I won't really know until I've cut my teeth on a <250bhp MX5.
Last thing I want is to discover I do want to go forged and consequently need to replace the turbo. If a GTX2860r can do both jobs then I guess I can justify paying twice the price. I can put my OEM VVT catalytic convertor money towards it
Have you got a build thread somewhere? I may want to pick your brains.
Sad truth is stock blocks are destined to break, so might as well go allofit, or be happy with 200 whp and a $150 turbo which will make your block last for decades.
We should clarify:
A 2560R is absolutely capable of 300 (!) hp at the engine with a Kraken kit and VVT head (if the rods are forged). A 2560R at full tilt is pretty good in a Miata
We should clarify:
A 2560R is absolutely capable of 300 (!) hp at the engine with a Kraken kit and VVT head (if the rods are forged). A 2560R at full tilt is pretty good in a Miata
You make a good point. Being realistic, 300bhp would be my limit if I were to open the engine up; I don't want to change gearboxes etc.
Have you driven a 300hp Miata? It is plenty fast. I'm at 280-285whp maxed out with my setup and a 2560R, I can tell you, it's intense.
My dad bought a Z4 35i with DCT last year and hasn't been in my car since it's on the road again and he said "That Z4 is so fast, holy moly".
After I took him with me in the Miata on a 15° celsius night a few days later, he said it was a BIG difference in acceleration compared to the Z4. He was somewhat shocked how fast it was.
I have to mention, that I also own a Z4 3.0i as a daily besides the Miata and even my wife laughed, when she drove the Miata and the Z back to back and said "OMG, it feels "slow" Which it ISN'T!
To be honest, no I haven't. I may well find that a regular 230 odd bhp TD04/GT2560 kit is more than enough, especially after hearing anecdotes like yours; it would certainly make life easier for someone new to turbocharging like me.
I don't intend to track it, I just want a weekend toy; just when I think I've decided on the setup I want, I read something that changes my mind lol.
Have you got a build thread somewhere? I may want to pick your brains.
I haven't got a build thread going but I probably should start one!
As der_vierte says, if your power goal is 300bhp you could achieve that with a GT2560R and some £300 maxpeeding forged rods.
My car with an EFR 6258 and stock VVT engine consisntely Virtual Dyno's at 250whp (288bhp if you assume 1.15x multiplier) which is not a million miles away from your end game. It's a lot of fun and quick enough on our twisty narrow British B-roads without being a handful.
Personally I'd skip the TD04 route. It is a good turbo but runs out of breath a little too soon. GT2560R is a much better fit for the 1.8 VVT and your goals. It'll give you an easy 230bhp with great spool and if you decide to build your engine, will hit your 300bhp target.
05-13-2021, 04:04 PM
GTX2860r on non-forged engine.
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Which it ISN'T!
