Guidance before I start ordering parts
01-23-2009, 02:50 PM
#41
I'd get a MS going first. It makes such a nice difference. Plus the sooner you get it, the sooner you'll learn it and become familiar with everything about tuning.
I didn't do suspension or a roll bar. I did get some brake pads, but that's it for brakes. Or a LSD. Or any gauges. Or a radiator. I will say the car NEEDS an LSD. But I'm not sure it needs any of the other things.
I didn't do suspension or a roll bar. I did get some brake pads, but that's it for brakes. Or a LSD. Or any gauges. Or a radiator. I will say the car NEEDS an LSD. But I'm not sure it needs any of the other things.
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01-23-2009, 04:36 PM
#43
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Best advice in this thread. You will have more fun with a bitchin' suspension, wide tires, and good brakes than you will with 200whp and stock everything else. I took that path (upgraded EVERYTHING, and then installed the turbo+MS+exhaust together) and I don't regret it for a second.
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01-23-2009, 05:20 PM
#44
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i autocrossed for a full season with a good suspension, rollbar, Rcomps, brake bias controller, and a torsen. I had tons of fun and was REAL competitive. I still dont have boost (waiting till that white **** goes away) but I am glad i did all the other small stuff before i threw a turbo on there.
I drove my 240sx with about 240 rwhp on stock suspension and shitty tires for months... waste of time.
atleast do nice springs/struts and get some decent tires on there. miatas may be slow, but they are still fun.
I drove my 240sx with about 240 rwhp on stock suspension and shitty tires for months... waste of time.
atleast do nice springs/struts and get some decent tires on there. miatas may be slow, but they are still fun.
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01-26-2009, 04:40 PM
#45
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LC-1 just got here while I was in class!
MS should be here next week, and will install.
Rounding up the last of my suspension parts, just have to talk SO into some $500 shocks.
Have a few leads on big brake upgrades, but all are expensive (overpriced) even if I wasn't counting pennies for a turbo build. At the least I will buy some Greenstuff pads and put new rotors on, as well as caliper rebuild.
I went and looked at someone's DIY setup this weekend for sale. Talk about an eye opener! This guy took the stock 1.6L mani, got a muffler shop to weld piping to a poorly cut plate steel flange, and put the Saab 9000 AiResearch T3 (with shaft play) on it, with the outlet flange welded to the turbine housing.
The wastegate actuator is welded open? When I asked him about this he said it helped as the thing used to run at 14psi, and he dropped it to about 10. When I asked about symptoms of insufficient airflow at higher rpms for this level of boost he seemed to know what I was talking about. Remember, this whole conversation is in Espanol.
He apparently spray painted the WHOLE assembly silver, including compressor blades. I guess this was a dress-up attempt for sale. I only went out there because he had an intercooler and piping as well, with a cheapy BOV. But even I couldn't bring myself to buy this:
MORAL OF THE STORY:
1. I quickly realized what kind of crap is out there. I was lucky here as this was craigslist, and I could go see it. But the pics he had taken looked halfway decent, and I could have easily lost money over the internet.
2. There are so many parts missing, or in need of replacement with many hobbled together second-hand setups. I humored myself by trying to find a rebuild kit and guessing what I would need in the way of feed lines and such. No fun.
3. The complete kits from BEGi, FM and such are looking better every day.
I talked to Stephanie at BEGi today and she said they should have pricing up for their bare bones kits this week. These would include just manifold, turbo and downpipe.
I also asked her about the old 4.1 setup they have for sale -cheap- and am really leaning towards it as it would be complete and plug-n-play. I would be on my way there right now if I didn't want to at least wait and see how much the DIYer kit is goin to run.
These older kits used an IHI turbo, I'm guessing it's an RHF5 but haven't been able to confirm with either Corky or Stephanie yet. The person I did talk to this afternoon said it was somewhere between the 2554 and 2560 in terms of boost characteristics, which is reassuring. I had assumed it would be a little puppy, but would like to see quick spool anyway.
Does anyone have experience with these kits?
If so, how did you like it, what would you have done differently?
MS should be here next week, and will install.
Rounding up the last of my suspension parts, just have to talk SO into some $500 shocks.
Have a few leads on big brake upgrades, but all are expensive (overpriced) even if I wasn't counting pennies for a turbo build. At the least I will buy some Greenstuff pads and put new rotors on, as well as caliper rebuild.
I went and looked at someone's DIY setup this weekend for sale. Talk about an eye opener! This guy took the stock 1.6L mani, got a muffler shop to weld piping to a poorly cut plate steel flange, and put the Saab 9000 AiResearch T3 (with shaft play) on it, with the outlet flange welded to the turbine housing.
The wastegate actuator is welded open? When I asked him about this he said it helped as the thing used to run at 14psi, and he dropped it to about 10. When I asked about symptoms of insufficient airflow at higher rpms for this level of boost he seemed to know what I was talking about. Remember, this whole conversation is in Espanol.
He apparently spray painted the WHOLE assembly silver, including compressor blades. I guess this was a dress-up attempt for sale. I only went out there because he had an intercooler and piping as well, with a cheapy BOV. But even I couldn't bring myself to buy this:
MORAL OF THE STORY:
1. I quickly realized what kind of crap is out there. I was lucky here as this was craigslist, and I could go see it. But the pics he had taken looked halfway decent, and I could have easily lost money over the internet.
2. There are so many parts missing, or in need of replacement with many hobbled together second-hand setups. I humored myself by trying to find a rebuild kit and guessing what I would need in the way of feed lines and such. No fun.
3. The complete kits from BEGi, FM and such are looking better every day.
I talked to Stephanie at BEGi today and she said they should have pricing up for their bare bones kits this week. These would include just manifold, turbo and downpipe.
I also asked her about the old 4.1 setup they have for sale -cheap- and am really leaning towards it as it would be complete and plug-n-play. I would be on my way there right now if I didn't want to at least wait and see how much the DIYer kit is goin to run.
These older kits used an IHI turbo, I'm guessing it's an RHF5 but haven't been able to confirm with either Corky or Stephanie yet. The person I did talk to this afternoon said it was somewhere between the 2554 and 2560 in terms of boost characteristics, which is reassuring. I had assumed it would be a little puppy, but would like to see quick spool anyway.
Does anyone have experience with these kits?
If so, how did you like it, what would you have done differently?
Last edited by gospeed81; 01-26-2009 at 05:22 PM.
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01-27-2009, 07:01 PM
#46
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Ok, I talked to Stephanie again today, and it is an RHB5 turbo. Did some research, and judging by the compressor flow map I should be pretty happy with it.
She also said the downpipe should bolt up to any stock sized flange, so I'm considering their 2.5" exhaust to complement the setup.
Still would like to know if anyone ever ran this kit (BEGi IV or 4.1), and how they liked it.
She also said the downpipe should bolt up to any stock sized flange, so I'm considering their 2.5" exhaust to complement the setup.
Still would like to know if anyone ever ran this kit (BEGi IV or 4.1), and how they liked it.
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01-28-2009, 12:34 PM
#47
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I plan on driving down to BEGi tomorrow to pick up this used 4.1 kit.
It seems like my best affordable bet to have a daily driver turbo sometime this year.
I know it's old, but I wouldn't mind rebuilding the turbo if it came to that.
Anyone have any objections or opinions that should make me feel otherwise?
It seems like my best affordable bet to have a daily driver turbo sometime this year.
I know it's old, but I wouldn't mind rebuilding the turbo if it came to that.
Anyone have any objections or opinions that should make me feel otherwise?
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01-28-2009, 04:40 PM
#49
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Let's just say I've got nothing but respect for him, and will probably ask him to autograph his book while I'm down there.
I found the following regarding the RHB5 while digging around on m.net:
Originally Posted by Corky Bell
That turbo will serve you well up to the range of 200 bhp. Don't sell a 200 bhp Miata short, its quick and fun. It will offer very good low end response and provide good mid- range torque.
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01-28-2009, 06:08 PM
#50
Whats with all the stage 1,2,3 etc stuff? Gave me a headache BIGTIME. lol
Here's how I planned my build. First and foremost read, read, read. Asking questions or poking for advice is good, but your better off reading the old threads, on here and m.net. Almost everyone on here has a different opinion on what is what. Digging up old threads sometimes shows actual development through a build, what went wrong, what went right, etc.
Also another big tip of advice.....don't rush! You cant rush good things, they take time. If your in a hurry for boost and want to have fun, find a used Greddy kit and slap that sucker on. I did just that years ago and it was plenty fun for years. If you try to rush you'll either skimp and get cheapy garbage, put yourself in debt, get only half of what you need, or all 3. lol
The way I usually do things is with pen and paper. **** tooling around with speadsheets and such, more time wasted you could spend on learning. Take a picture of the engine bay and load it on your computer. Sit back and look at it, then think;
-Ok, manifold goes here. That means gasket, hardware, and manifold.
-Now, depending on the manifold, what turbo can I use. Then work your way to the rear bumper. Downpipe, cat/testpipe, and exhaust. Making sure of course that everything will either bolt up, or that you know ahead of time that **** will need to be fabbed or hacked, depending on your skillz.
-Then the intake path is next, will you be keeping the AFM or will you delete it. That determines how much room you have to play with as far as the air filter, piping, and heat shielding. Then you can order accordingly instead of guessing.
-Now you need to get over to the throttle body, this is a big step. First, how big of an IC and will it fit. Now your piping, how big, how will you route it, where will you place the BOV and the IAT, finally what size couplers and clamps do you need and how many. Also take the time to think of how you will mount the IC.
Now that the intake route and exhaust route is planned, start on fueling and so on. This is just an example of how I work, maybe it doesn't work that way for others. But I have found that its easy to go online and say ok....mani/turbo/dp ordered....but now you have 43 other things to get that you might have left out. **** can add up real quick, so be careful where you start buying parts. No point in having a $400 manifold if you don't have the cash for a turbo. No point in buying bigger injectors if you cant finish getting the turbo stuff together.
I also agree 100% that there's NO point in slapping on a turbo if you don't have things like suspension and brakes taken care of. Good luck man, just plan carefully and DONT RUSH IT!
Vash-
Here's how I planned my build. First and foremost read, read, read. Asking questions or poking for advice is good, but your better off reading the old threads, on here and m.net. Almost everyone on here has a different opinion on what is what. Digging up old threads sometimes shows actual development through a build, what went wrong, what went right, etc.
Also another big tip of advice.....don't rush! You cant rush good things, they take time. If your in a hurry for boost and want to have fun, find a used Greddy kit and slap that sucker on. I did just that years ago and it was plenty fun for years. If you try to rush you'll either skimp and get cheapy garbage, put yourself in debt, get only half of what you need, or all 3. lol
The way I usually do things is with pen and paper. **** tooling around with speadsheets and such, more time wasted you could spend on learning. Take a picture of the engine bay and load it on your computer. Sit back and look at it, then think;
-Ok, manifold goes here. That means gasket, hardware, and manifold.
-Now, depending on the manifold, what turbo can I use. Then work your way to the rear bumper. Downpipe, cat/testpipe, and exhaust. Making sure of course that everything will either bolt up, or that you know ahead of time that **** will need to be fabbed or hacked, depending on your skillz.
-Then the intake path is next, will you be keeping the AFM or will you delete it. That determines how much room you have to play with as far as the air filter, piping, and heat shielding. Then you can order accordingly instead of guessing.
-Now you need to get over to the throttle body, this is a big step. First, how big of an IC and will it fit. Now your piping, how big, how will you route it, where will you place the BOV and the IAT, finally what size couplers and clamps do you need and how many. Also take the time to think of how you will mount the IC.
Now that the intake route and exhaust route is planned, start on fueling and so on. This is just an example of how I work, maybe it doesn't work that way for others. But I have found that its easy to go online and say ok....mani/turbo/dp ordered....but now you have 43 other things to get that you might have left out. **** can add up real quick, so be careful where you start buying parts. No point in having a $400 manifold if you don't have the cash for a turbo. No point in buying bigger injectors if you cant finish getting the turbo stuff together.
I also agree 100% that there's NO point in slapping on a turbo if you don't have things like suspension and brakes taken care of. Good luck man, just plan carefully and DONT RUSH IT!
Vash-
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01-29-2009, 11:18 PM
#51
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Thanks for the advice Vash, I really wish I had your patience.
I got home two hours ago after driving down to BEGi. Nearly a 10hr trip overall, but a great experience. Nicest people you'll ever meet, and really took care of me.
I picked up a used BEGi 4.1 system with the IHI (baby) turbo. Since it has already been installed on another 1.6L I'm anticipating a pretty easy hardware install.
I am going to get MS up and running first...as well as installing the RX7 460cc injectors.
I will take pics of the BEGi kit next week when I get back into town, and start a build thread. I just laid everything out in the garage to orientate and figure out what I may (or may not) need.
I am really looking forward to getting started, especially after walking around Corky's shop for a couple of hours. They really had some neat vehicles there, including his motorcycle lift trailer.
The one that impressed me the most was an NA from a customer in Hawaii that they are stuffing a twin turbo VQ into. It just looked like it belonged there, even though it's one of the craziest motor swaps I've ever heard of for a Miata. I do like that motor though (have it's cousin in the Xterra), and I think someone is going to tear up some serious mountain roads on a Pacific island later this year.
Also saw the NC turbo prototype. Let's just say I can't wait to graduate.
Best part was shootin' the **** with Corky. He recounted his days at A&M (where I now study) and his attempt to get into professional racing. I could have hung out all afternoon if I didn't have to get back and do some homework tonight.
The kit is in really great shape, and is better than anything I could have hoped of getting off of craigslist or ebay, and probably the forums. They included all new silicone, fasteners, vacuum hose and fittings to make sure it was dependable.
I was really surprised not only with the product, but with the customer service. To see that BEGi will still stand behind their products even after a decade was impressive.
The kit itself is pretty impressive for an early 1.6L kit. It has a true seperated gases downpipe, a nice sturdy manifold, and high quality intercooler piping. The recirc valve still looks brand new, and the turbo has basically zero shaft play.
Corky himself welded my WBO2 bung on, and tapped the intake manifold elbow for my IAT sensor.
I would like to go on about the experience (and the nice roads out there), but I am exhausted.
I would definitely do business with them again. Actually, I will be disappointed if I don't get to do business with them again in the not too distant future.
+1 for BEGI
Damon
I got home two hours ago after driving down to BEGi. Nearly a 10hr trip overall, but a great experience. Nicest people you'll ever meet, and really took care of me.
I picked up a used BEGi 4.1 system with the IHI (baby) turbo. Since it has already been installed on another 1.6L I'm anticipating a pretty easy hardware install.
I am going to get MS up and running first...as well as installing the RX7 460cc injectors.
I will take pics of the BEGi kit next week when I get back into town, and start a build thread. I just laid everything out in the garage to orientate and figure out what I may (or may not) need.
I am really looking forward to getting started, especially after walking around Corky's shop for a couple of hours. They really had some neat vehicles there, including his motorcycle lift trailer.
The one that impressed me the most was an NA from a customer in Hawaii that they are stuffing a twin turbo VQ into. It just looked like it belonged there, even though it's one of the craziest motor swaps I've ever heard of for a Miata. I do like that motor though (have it's cousin in the Xterra), and I think someone is going to tear up some serious mountain roads on a Pacific island later this year.
Also saw the NC turbo prototype. Let's just say I can't wait to graduate.
Best part was shootin' the **** with Corky. He recounted his days at A&M (where I now study) and his attempt to get into professional racing. I could have hung out all afternoon if I didn't have to get back and do some homework tonight.
The kit is in really great shape, and is better than anything I could have hoped of getting off of craigslist or ebay, and probably the forums. They included all new silicone, fasteners, vacuum hose and fittings to make sure it was dependable.
I was really surprised not only with the product, but with the customer service. To see that BEGi will still stand behind their products even after a decade was impressive.
The kit itself is pretty impressive for an early 1.6L kit. It has a true seperated gases downpipe, a nice sturdy manifold, and high quality intercooler piping. The recirc valve still looks brand new, and the turbo has basically zero shaft play.
Corky himself welded my WBO2 bung on, and tapped the intake manifold elbow for my IAT sensor.
I would like to go on about the experience (and the nice roads out there), but I am exhausted.
I would definitely do business with them again. Actually, I will be disappointed if I don't get to do business with them again in the not too distant future.
+1 for BEGI
Damon
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