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Help me chase 300whp

 
Old 01-06-2018, 02:01 PM
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Default Help me chase 300whp

Hello,

Im looking for some help chasing power from my current set-up, failing that, recommendations on what a new set-up should look like.

The current set-up is a completely reconditioned NB 1.8 engine (balanced, forged rods, stock pistons (slightly machined to a lower CR from 9.5:1 to around 9.35:1) NBFL VVT oil pump, new crank pulley, stock head.

The manifold is a flowy log with inspiration from Sturovo / people on here, using 1.25 SCH40 primaries. The manifold flange was reverse engineered from the gasket and therefore larger than the ports, this meant the 1.25 SCH40 pipe was actually too small for the flange and needed beating out to fit. The manifold is mildly polished.

The turbo is a port & polished hybrid TD04L-19T (was a TD04L-13T which made 242 whp at 14psi on the old engine). The downpipe is 2.5, with 2.5 straight through to an MX5Parts back box (muffler). The back box isnt the best design in the world with a central chamber and 2.25 twin tips, although I have taken the back box off and seen zero difference in spool or power on maps/Virtual Dyno.

The old engine (same setup but standard 9.5:1 pistons) made 242whp at 14psi on the 13T. New injectors (700cc DWs), 19T billet wheel on the turbo new head and rebuilt engine, produced 250whp at 18psi. To say I was disappointed was an understatement. I was shooting for 300whp and achieved 8 more than before after spending around 2500.

We couldnt get the turbo to make any more boost on the 10psi wastegate and EBC so plumbed in a small pipe with a hole in it to help the EBC vent more, this achieved ~18-19psi & 250whp.

My current thoughts are:-

My manifold is crap and needs redoing in the style of Absurdflow / Wittyworks and keep the TD04L-19T and turn the boost up.

The TD04L hotside is just too small at higher RPMs and is the bottleneck, creating high back pressure and EGT

Change manifold, turbo, DP & exhaust to . Something else. Absurdflow / Wittworks, EFR / GT3071R????

The stock head cannot flow enough (although looking at a lot of the builds on here the head should be good for many more horses than I currently have). IATs continue to rise up to redline at 18psi and I read when they stop rising this indicates the system has stopped flowing per s.

Sorry for the rambling. Im quite pissed off with only making 8 more horsepower and 300 really was the magic number I was looking for. I want to easily slide past E46 M3s, not chase after them and battle to get past.

I'm on crap wifi at the moment so can't upload pics to this post but will try to update shortly.
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:08 PM
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Should also note, the 250whp map also got a Skunk2 throttle body and ported IM to match.

I did wonder if the original head had had work done to it, but I find that hard to believe given the condition the car was in when I bought it.
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:10 PM
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the #1 reason is the tiny turbine/hotside on that turbo. either upgrade to a vf, or scrap that setup altogether for EFR hotness

I never saw the appeal of upgrading a td04 unless you are bored and/or doing it for free
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:19 PM
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The hallmark of a maxed-out turbo is "more boost but no power". You're there.

If you want a specific result, the easiest way to do it is to study those that have come before you and duplicate the important aspects of their build. With your bottom end and injectors, you're a hotside swap away from an easy 300whp, with lots and lots of headroom should you decide you want more.

So, in short, use this: Trackspeed EFR Turbocharger System

Do this:

https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-tim...17-5psi-94656/

Or this:

https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-tim...d-95108/page2/

Or this:

https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...2/#post1454492

Or this:

https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...ase-car-92683/

Or this:

https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...8-build-95308/
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:30 PM
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Thanks for the quick responses guys, I'll read the threads and take it on board. I am reticent to change the turbo completely at this point BUT given the instant response stating the tiny TD04L is the issue, I may have to bite the bullet.

Still trying to upload photo's :-/
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Old 01-06-2018, 04:11 PM
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Turbo too small. There are many journal bearing garrett clones on ebay, spool is not great, but better woth a good manifold. Patsmx5 has run multiple different setups with ebay turbos, the lowest whp of which was 350whp on a gt2871r clone. 200 dollar turbo, 1000 dollar diy rebuild engine.

Get a tse setup (best spool from bw efr turbo) most expensive, least amount of parts, best quality turbo

or kraken setup (comes with full exhaust for 1100 shipped) but need to choose a turbo contact kraken miata on facebook

Not having any info on your ic setup makes me guess that is also not efficient. Make sure your ic core is a good one, minimize piping bends... Buy a track dog racing over the rad ic setup if you want the easy button.
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Old 01-06-2018, 04:25 PM
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Thanks Thumpetto007 the intercooler is a generic medium sized cooler from eBay - 550x140x65 with 2.25" pipes.
It's placed as far forward in the NB bumper mouth as possible and I have shrouded in the intercooler and oil cooler, typically the intake air temp pre TB is around 20c above ambient.

One full pull (after many) goes from ~10c to ~25c at 18psi on a 5c evening. On track it typically sits around 25 -30c at at 10-15c ambient, which I believed to be quite good.
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Old 01-06-2018, 04:58 PM
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Makes me look forward to my FlowForce injectors that are in the mail.
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Old 01-06-2018, 05:11 PM
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Or he could ignore all those inferior chinachargers and get an ihi vf39 and change nothing else and be able to hit 300whp.

I would also not recommend the TDR intercooler at all for 300+ setups.
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Old 01-06-2018, 05:16 PM
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Oh really? Thats the first i heard about the tdr not being good. I was under the impression they are the best on the market.

Is the ic core just too small for over 300whp?
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Old 01-06-2018, 06:56 PM
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Add a bigger turbo and you will hit your goal.
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Old 01-06-2018, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Or he could ignore all those inferior chinachargers and get an ihi vf39 and change nothing else and be able to hit 300whp.

I would also not recommend the TDR intercooler at all for 300+ setups.
Ask Nigelt how he likes his China Charger.

OP, 18psi is well versed with the WRX / STI world. He is not just guessing here.
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Old 01-06-2018, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by thumpetto007 View Post
Oh really? Thats the first i heard about the tdr not being good. I was under the impression they are the best on the market.

Is the ic core just too small for over 300whp?
Correct. It's a small tube/fin core that simply can't deal with big power.
There are at least 3 other cores that are just as good, but also come in sizes and configurations capable of supporting 300, 400, etc.
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:10 PM
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I did a 6758 car ~18mos ago for a customer in the Midwest, he asked me to keep his TDR IC and I was not impressed with it. Had I known, I would have insisted on changing the IC setup in that car (~300whp pump gas track car).
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 01-08-2018, 12:47 AM
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I mean the pipe routing is the correct way, but just needs a different/bigger core. I would hope your ic kit goes over the rad. Its the easiest way to achieve the least amount of bends, oem radiator supports are just replaced with longer ones for pipe clearance. Oh and the minor added cost of running hood raisers, not the hood prop.
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Old 01-08-2018, 01:18 AM
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It's not the correct or the best way. I don't even think there is such a thing.

In fact, have you ever considered the amount of direction change that the air has to make at the end tank in a typical over the rad setup?





I'll take 5 smooth big radius bends over that any day.
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:03 PM
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Images attached as promised. sorry for the slow reply. I've been reading the links and deciding what i want to do (can't find a vf39 in the UK).

please ignore the log, that was merely to show boost and temps, I was n the middle of tuning Closed loop boost control hence the crazy log.
Attached Thumbnails Help me chase 300whp-received_1463441257045844.jpg   Help me chase 300whp-cl-boost-log.png   Help me chase 300whp-img_20171028_154026.jpg   Help me chase 300whp-img_20170903_214618.jpg   Help me chase 300whp-img_20170902_224117.jpg  

Help me chase 300whp-img_20160903_181907.jpg   Help me chase 300whp-img_20160422_213906.jpg   Help me chase 300whp-img_20160422_215647.jpg  
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:06 PM
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Are you sure? There are also tons of other VF turbo's that are nearly identical to the 39, they are extremely common here. In fact, I even have a near-new VF48 I'll be selling soon
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Old 01-16-2018, 06:40 PM
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18psi, what do you think to this? It seems a bit too cheap to be genuine and I thought the VF's were ball bearing cores not journals?

Link

Sorry for needing to be spoon fed, I am severely lacking in time at the moment although I have managed to read the suggested posts and the EFR is looking very tempting, need my wallet to agree though.

Thanks

Wilson
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Old 01-16-2018, 07:22 PM
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That's a chinese knockoff. I would never spend GBP 320.00/ US $441.68 on it
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