Trackspeed Stage 2 VVT shortblock, EFR6758, E85, 452whp/427wtq@26psi. I'm scared. - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Trackspeed Stage 2 VVT shortblock, EFR6758, E85, 452whp/[email protected] I'm scared.

Trackspeed Stage 2 VVT shortblock, EFR6758, E85, 452whp/[email protected] I'm scared.

Old 11-08-2017, 02:10 AM
  #21  
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If you are spinning in 6th, you have snow tires on.

I know of 5 500wtq v8 miatas that hook (2 on "street" tires), and 2 600+wtq turbo v8 miatas that hook, IN FIRST GEAR.

There is something wrong with your alignment, suspension, and tires if you are spinning that hard, when FAR faster vehicles have ZERO issues.
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Old 11-08-2017, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Stock 6-speed reinforced with thoughts and prayers.
RIP
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Old 11-08-2017, 11:53 AM
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Temperature, summer tires, humidity all make a difference. I can spin 3rd on dry pavement depending on the temperature. Cars that hook, still get a bit loose sometimes, and it can be a little unnerving at speed. Enjoy that thing, sounds like fun to me.
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Old 11-08-2017, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DeerHunter View Post
Yes, except that the gearing isn't much better than the stock 6-speed. The nice thing about the Quaife gears is that they're tall enough to enable you to put ludicrous amounts of power to the ground. The KMiata swap will require changing out the final drive (probably with a Getrag diff) to something lower than even the oft-anticipated 3.3 r&p.

The Quaife gears are beefy and will put up with tons of abuse (I autocrossed for years with my first set, with numerous smoky burnouts aimed at impressing the hoi polloi). It was only once I started tracking that they failed. My theory is that the 5-speed case can't handle the heat, starts expanding and the gears no longer mesh properly. A chipped tooth will inevitably result.

I'm considering the KMiata swap, but am reluctant to discard my really cool (and bulletproof) Guru billet differential. Besides, I retired my '93 from track duties and now have an MSM to fill that role.
While the Quaife gearset is a good option, it is still ultimately a band aid on a weak trans. I think case deflection (not thermal expansion) is the ultimate killer. Besides, autoX and hella sick burnouts will easily overwhelm tire traction, its 3rd-4th-5th WOT action where the motor can actually produce full power without losing traction that breaks things.

The e30 5-speeds are geared taller than the e46 5/6 speeds, might be a good option for you, especially if you're trying to retain that rear end.
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Old 11-08-2017, 01:15 PM
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Contrats, those are some really impressive numbers. I felt like your original goal of 400hp with this build was super conservative, glad to see you absolutely smash that.
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Old 11-08-2017, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I'm scared of this one

Motor:
  • Trackspeed "Stage 2" shortblock
    • 83.5mm Supertech 8.6:1 piston w/ thermal coating
    • Manley H-beam rods
    • ACL Race bearings
    • ARP head/main studs
    • Boundary Stage 2 oil pump
  • OEM untouched BP6D head
  • OEM valves
  • OEM solid lifters
  • Supertech heavy double valvesprings
  • OEM BP6D cams
  • OEM EUDM Squaretop manifold
Turbo:
  • Trackspeed Turbo Kit w/ BW EFR6758 0.64a/r
  • Precision 350hp intercooler
  • prototype Trackspeed IC pipes
  • Enthuza 3" exhaust
EMS/Fuel/Ignition:
  • MSLabs MS3 Basic w/ CAN Wideband
  • Innovate LC-2
  • Injector Dynamics ID1000 (96%DC max, lol)
  • Walbro 455lph E85 fuel pump
  • Rewired fuel pump (dedicated relay)
  • OEM BP6D fuel rail, OEM returnless forward of FPR
  • Fuelab 535 FPR (60psi w/ 1:1 boost reference)
  • Fuelab 818 filter (6ppm Fiberglass media)
  • E85 (80% actual content)
  • prototype Trackspeed GM D585 coils
452whp, 427wtq. 292kpa peak at 4130rpm, bleeding off to ~278kpa by 4500 and staying around there (-/- 3kpa) to redline. 26psi of boost. Peak timing of 19.5deg at 6600rpm. Same exact mechanical setup that did 297/272 a couple of weeks ago on gas with the exception of the fuel pump (swapped DW300 for Walbro 455-E85). After steady-state tuning and taking an educated guess at fueling, it made ~330whp at 220kpa at the old timing numbers, then ~360whp at the same boost level with ~20deg of timing. From there, I just kept adding boost. Timing is conservative, I am a couple degrees back from MBT everywhere.

The lower lines are what I will drive it at, 415whp/386wtq and ~84% peak duty cycle. Peak of 265kpa, holding ~258kpa all the way through. ~23psi of boost. At that power level it wants to turn the tires in 4th gear at 90mph on dry pavement.

That's it. My goal was 400whp, anything beyond that was gravy. With a usable, safe (lol) 415whp and an Internet Hero-Pull(TM) map at 450whp+, I couldn't be happier. There's nothing further planned for the powerplant in this car.

Excuse me while I update my life insurance policy.


Im in the middle of building my motor now with pretty much the same setup as you. Do you think id be fine with a DW300 or is the 455 necessary. Also is there any reason you didnt do oversize valves or are they just kind of un necessary on the BP6D head

Last edited by matrussell122; 11-08-2017 at 01:30 PM. Reason: spelling error
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Old 11-08-2017, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by themonkeyman View Post
The e30 5-speeds are geared taller than the e46 5/6 speeds, might be a good option for you, especially if you're trying to retain that rear end.
TSE is working on their own T5 transmission swap project. I am sure when it is to Savington's liking he will swap it into this car if the 6 speed goes.
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Old 11-08-2017, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by thumpetto007 View Post
If you are spinning in 6th, you have snow tires on.

I know of 5 500wtq v8 miatas that hook (2 on "street" tires), and 2 600+wtq turbo v8 miatas that hook, IN FIRST GEAR.

There is something wrong with your alignment, suspension, and tires if you are spinning that hard, when FAR faster vehicles have ZERO issues.
cool story bro. you ever driven one of these cars yourself? No?
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Old 11-08-2017, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by thumpetto007 View Post
If you are spinning in 6th, you have snow tires on.

I know of 5 500wtq v8 miatas that hook (2 on "street" tires), and 2 600+wtq turbo v8 miatas that hook, IN FIRST GEAR.

There is something wrong with your alignment, suspension, and tires if you are spinning that hard, when FAR faster vehicles have ZERO issues.
It could be his alignment settings too. The alignment I found best to hook in a straight line is predictably a terrible alignment for hitting the turns. If his alignment is optimized for turning, then it's not optimized for straight line traction. A great tire that's not making good contact with the road is going to spin when you make a lot of power.
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Old 11-08-2017, 02:20 PM
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Yeah can't run maximum caster in the back if you wanna hook up.
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Old 11-08-2017, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
TSE is working on their own T5 transmission swap project. I am sure when it is to Savington's liking he will swap it into this car if the 6 speed goes.
That's fun that people think a T5 is going to hold this long term.
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Old 11-08-2017, 02:24 PM
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I have full confidence savington has no idea what he's doing. he's just a dyno queen builder.
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Old 11-08-2017, 02:26 PM
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I heard he flew Hyper out to tune his car
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Old 11-08-2017, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I heard he flew Hyper out to tune his car
Hyper turned him down. Too busy sackriding 1.6-boosting child molesters.
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Old 11-08-2017, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by matrussell122 View Post
Im in the middle of building my motor now with pretty much the same setup as you. Do you think id be fine with a DW300 or is the 455 necessary. Also is there any reason you didnt do oversize valves or are they just kind of un necessary on the BP6D head
DW300 would probably do it. They updated the 300 a couple of years ago and the flow is very close to the 400-E85 at high pressure. I swapped because my DW300 failed a couple of weeks ago (complete failure, just stopped turning on). I had no indication that the Walbro pump was anywhere near the limit - the VE table only rises 10% or so from 200kpa to 300kpa since I have a boost reference. Fuel pressure on the hero pass was 84-85psi.

Valves and headwork would be very beneficial at this power level. It won't make a big difference on torque, but it would probably have pushed this setup north of 500whp.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 11-08-2017, 02:55 PM
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Sweet! You are now my most expensive friend
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Old 11-08-2017, 02:56 PM
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Very nice, congrats. Glad it all came together so well. Hope to see it in action next fall.
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Old 11-08-2017, 05:31 PM
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Sav builds a swagger wagon.
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:59 PM
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So Savington, given the nature of what I think this build is - mainly a road car that can be tracked with devastating results - what would be your ideal:
1. road wheel tyre combo, and
2. semi-slick wheel/tyre combo for the track?
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:14 PM
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This is strictly a road car. Full interior, all the trimmings, plus a few I've added (traction control and active suspension). In spite of the crazy dyno numbers, my well-developed road race car (Rover) is 5+ seconds per lap faster than Acamas is, owing entirely to lower weight, better aero development, and suspension that's optimized for road course performance. I did several track days in this car in 2016 and early 2017, but it's both slower and less fun than Rover is, so once Rover was up and running, I retired Acamas from track use.

To answer your question, the ideal road wheel/tire combo depends on your goals. I wanted maximum straight-line traction, reasonable longevity, and decent ride quality, so I have a 245/40 Hankook RS4 on a 15x9 6UL. If I wanted to trade ride quality for cornering grip, I would go up to a 15x10. If I wanted less longevity and more grip, I would go to a 245/40 Rival S.

For a track wheel/tire combo, it's the same answer - it depends on your goals. On Rover, I use a 245/40 Maxxis RC-1 most of the time, because it's inexpensive, long-lasting, and forgiving. If I want to maximize speed, I swap up to a 245/40 Hoosier R7. Both are on 15x10 6ULs.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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