Don't be surprised if the e85 doesn't improve the spool RPM, might actually hurt it. I haven't been able to find any direct discussion on the topic, but e85 has a lower EGT, and the turbo is harvesting heat energy.

I was under the impression that it would help because I'm physically burning more fuel to make the same kaboom. So producing more exhaust gasses at the same rpms to spin the turbine.

If not the thing's going to be a slug when I bolt on a potato. Maybe 2560r. Different thread for that haha

Same amount of air for more fuel.

We'll see after a decent pair of id1000's come up for sale in the classifieds

You dont need ID1000 for a 2554r. Kinda overkill

Everyone needs ID1000.

If the ID100's are cheap, why not? They'll idle a stock NA6 better than OEM injectors. Headroom to run 240whp that a NB head will make on E85 at NA fuel pressure. I say do it if they are a bargain. If not a bargain, I'd go Deatchwerks 450's or Denso yellow 440's.

E85 is oxygenated, so there's effectively more air. Empirically, E85 does not hurt spool.

lol, yeah, I held my tongue ... 400 on e85 with a 1.6 yo!

fascinating ... had not considered the oxygenation component. Would still love to see an apples to apples comparison (which may not be fair due to flame front speed) with turbine inlet pressures and EGTs recorded. May be more proper to compare MBT tuning, but that introduces a fair amount on complex interaction churn. I will actually be in a position to take this measurement at some point here this summer (hopefully ...).

Yeah oke thats right. I also have 1000s. But that was more for a future plan. Idle is really good. The yellow rx8 are to small for me. At 15 psi i was at 85% duty cycle iirc.

now with the 1000s at 20 psi my duty cycle is around 55%. So there is enough left for future plans

54 isn't staying forever and I bought a spare engine for cheaps that I'd like to build up. I figure the 1000's and my dw300 will totally future proof my fueling

The oxygen that's carried along in ethanol doesn't contribute to combustion. It's already bonded to a hydrogen and a carbon, meaning that it's already "burned" and is just along for the ride. To contribute to combustion, oxygen in the input molecule needs to be bound to something less stable than the Hs and Cs in the product, which is why high explosives are full of nitro compounds (a nitrogen with two oxygens bonded to it) and why Top Fuel cars burn nitromethane.

You get more power from E85 because it's got higher octane (so you can advance the timing/run more boost and thus turn more of the heat energy into useful work), and because it's got a higher H/C ratio than gasoline does. Combining oxygen with hydrogen releases more energy than combining it with carbon does, so for a given amount of input oxygen (which is ultimately what displacement, boost, VE, etc are all about), you want to maximize the amount of H you burn. Methanol is better than ethanol, and pure hydrogen is even better than that. High performance rocket engines burn liquid hydrogen with liquid oxygen, partly for this reason.

What that means for spool -- more timing means more energy in the piston, meaning less in the exhaust for the turbine to use. OTOH, more energy in the piston means the engine accelerates through the RPM band faster, meaning it gets to the higher-flow revs sooner, and the higher H/C ratio giving more energy overall means that even if you're getting a lower percentage of it in the turbine it's coming out of a larger total. Empirically, as Savington says, it doesn't really make a significant difference either way, so who cares.

--Ian

Have to say, I fucking love the scientifically way of saying "it doesn't matter" that's why this forum is great.

Side note, a buddy just made 430whp on his built KA24 with e85 on ID1000 at 70psi base fuel pressure then 90% duty cycle peak and it idles better than my FFI.

Engine: 99 1.8l
Turbo: GT3076R 56 .60 A/R
Manifold: BEGi CastExt. Wastgate
Downpipe Size/Style: Single tube 2.5"
Exhaust Size: 2.5"
Exhaust Components: Resonator & Magnaflow Muffler
Intercooler Core Size: BEGI #2
Intake Manifold: Stock
Headwork: unknown
Engine Management: Hydra
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: Basically FM plumbing
Trans & Rear End Ratio: 5-speed, 4.1 LSD
Rear tire size: 225/45/15

Fith GEAR PULL:

RPM Boost(psi)
2700 0
2800 .6
2900 1.8
3000 1.8
3100 2.4
3200 3
3300 3.7
3400 4.9
3500 5.5
3600 6.1
3700 7.3
3800 8.6
3900 9.7
4000 10.4
4100 11
4200 12.9
4300 14.1
4400 15.3
4500 17.2
4600 17.3
4700 18

Long spool?

Forever, and quite linear. Is that BB or journal? For real Garrett or eBay?

start the pulls at 2k not 3
get 3" exhaust like discussed in your thread
intercooler is likely choking too

I will redo my pull
Talked to Abe today, so a 3" is on the way.
The intercooler never crossed my mind.

Oh yeah sooo long. It is BB

Garrett Turbo.

You can check intercooler restrictiveness by checking pressure between the compressor and intercooler and comparing that to MAP when you're at WOT. I was concerned about whether or not my standard FM intercooler was big enough, but when I checked it there was only about a 1-2 psi drop across it.

--Ian

Stock 2000 miata with FM setup from Manifold back.
2.5 exhaust with cat. Fab9 vibrant 'stage 1' intercooler. Running stock timing map from brain's basemap.
Turbo is a SR20 modified to a '2560'. FM manifold was modified with a tial EWG (by thirdgen).

-Make sure boost cut was set up for 12 psi
-Disconnect wg line
-Do a 4th gear pull starting at ~2k rpm

Started at TPS of 3.2, psi -12.2 and 1687 rpm.

0 PSI : 1771 RPM at TPS 38.3
1 PSI : 1886 RPM at TPS 100 (first reading at 100 TPS)
2 PSI : 2105 RPM
3 PSI : 2174 RPM
4 PSI : 2370 RPM
5 PSI : 2551 RPM
6 PSI : 2742 RPM
7 PSI : 2883 RPM
8 PSI : 3005 RPM
9 PSI : 3102 RPM
10 PSI : 3200 RPM
11 PSI : 3253 RPM
12 PSI : 3349 RPM
/Boost cut @ 12

Should I do this again and start when holding the 'boost' at about atm pressure with the throttle? In any event, this doesn't seem too bad.



Log here: https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...5/#post1430616

Engine: Trackspeed Stage 2 VVT longblock (8.6:1 83.5mm Supertechs)
Turbo: EFR6758 0.64a/r
Manifold: Trackspeed EFR T25
Downpipe Size/Style: Trackspeed EFR 3"
Exhaust Size: 3"
Exhaust Components: 3" Enthuza metal cat + catback
Intercooler Core Size: Precision 350hp
Intake Manifold: EUDM Squaretop
Headwork: OEM
Engine Management: MSLabs MS3 Basic
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: CA91, GM D585s, 3.636:1s

FIFTH GEAR PULL: (equivalent of a 4th gear pull in a 5-speed car)

RPM Boost(psi)
2023rpm 0.1psi
2060rpm 1.0psi
2152rpm 2.0psi
2268rpm 3.0psi
2404rpm 4.1psi
2536rpm 5.0psi
2621rpm 6.0psi
2720rpm 7.0psi
2811rpm 8.0psi
2911rpm 9.0psi
2988rpm 10.1psi
3079rpm 11.2psi
3135rpm 12.1psi
3218rpm 13.1psi
3263rpm 14.2psi
3304rpm 15.1psi
3370rpm 16.0psi
3420rpm 17.0psi
3484rpm 18.4psi

Engine: '96 (8.6:1 Supertechs), Crower forged rods
Turbo: GTX2867R 0.86a/r IWG
Manifold: Artech Tubular Top Mount
Downpipe Size/Style: Artech 3"
Exhaust Size: 3"
Exhaust Components: 3" MKTurbo Magnaflow
Intercooler Core Size: Medium-sized Ebay junk, I'll measure and insert info here later
Intake Manifold: stock '96 NA8
Headwork: Ported by Miata2fast, small stock NA8 cams, hyd lifters
Engine Management: MSLabs MS3 Basic
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: Skunky2 TB, Air filter mounted right on turbo for hot air intake, GM 585s, 3.636:1s,

FIFTH GEAR PULL: (equivalent of a 4th gear pull in a 5-speed car)

RPM Boost(psi)
1900rpm 0.4psi
2000rpm 1.0psi
2200rpm 1.7psi
2400rpm 2.3psi
2600rpm 3.0psi
2800rpm 3.7psi
3000rpm 4.2psi
3200rpm 4.8psi
3400rpm 5.4psi
3600rpm 6.0psi
3800rpm 6.8psi
4000rpm 8.6psi
4200rpm 9.9psi
4400rpm 12.1psi
4600rpm 16.0psi
4800rpm 18.6psi
5000rpm 20.3psi
5200rpm 21.1psi

Thanks Six! Super informative for me.

do you have a VD by any chance?

Uh, nope. Clean bill of health.

nice, good to hear.

very curious to know if you get the typical tq fall-off after say 5kRPM with that turbine housing and ex combo.

Next time I'm at my computer I will upload that particular log

sweet, thanks!

Engine: 99-00 wiseco pistons, eagle rods(so far so good)
Turbo: GTX2867R 0.64a/r IWG
Manifold: Custom Tubular equal length Top Mount
Downpipe Size/Style: Custom 3"
Exhaust Size: Custom 3"
Exhaust Components: Custom catless pipe
Intercooler Core Size: Medium-sized (L:23 T:2,6 H:4.3) will change soon with a bigger one
Intake manifold: stock 99
Headwork: None
Engine Management: MS2pnp
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: 6 speed, 3,636 torsen, no air filter(will put one today) stock coils(i have aem 30-2853 coils ready to install)

FIFTH GEAR PULL: (equivalent of a 4th gear pull in a 5-speed car)

RPM Boost(Kpa) (psi)
2200rpm 107.7 1.11
2400rpm 118.6 2.69
2600rpm 122.3 3.23
2800rpm 127.2 3.94
3000rpm 133.6 4.87
3200rpm 141.8 6.06
3400rpm 150.1 7.26
3600rpm 170.0 10.15
3800rpm 186.3 12.5
4000rpm 204.6 15.17
4266rpm 224.4 17.75
4400rpm 226.4 18.33
4600rpm 225.8 18.24
4800rpm 224.7 18.08

Engine: BP4W (9:1 84mm Supertechs)
Turbo: VF35
Manifold: Kraken Subaru Log
Downpipe Size/Style: 3" Custom
Exhaust Size: 3"
Exhaust Components: 3" Magnaflow metal cat + Magnaflow big mufler
Intercooler Core Size: Ebay 450MM X 175MM X 65MM
Intake Manifold: Squaretop
Headwork: Home DIY P&P
Engine Management: MSLabs MS3 Basic
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: 98Ron, EBC, 3.636:1s

FIFTH GEAR PULL: (equivalent of a 4th gear pull in a 5-speed car)

Time RPM TPS MAP Boost
s RPM % kPa psi
0 1923.0 100.3 102.2 0.3
0.067 1934.0 100.3 102.7 0.3
0.134 1940.0 100.3 103.4 0.4
0.201 1950.0 100.3 104.2 0.6
0.27 1958.0 100.3 104.9 0.7
0.339 1967.0 100.3 105.9 0.8
0.406 1971.0 100.3 106.4 0.9
0.474 1988.0 100.3 107.4 1.0
0.541 1997.0 100.3 108.1 1.1
0.608 2006.0 100.3 108.8 1.2
0.675 2013.0 100.5 109.6 1.3
0.74 2020.0 100.4 110.3 1.4
0.808 2034.0 100.4 111.0 1.5
0.873 2043.0 100.4 112.0 1.7
0.94 2057.0 100.4 112.7 1.8
1.007 2063.0 100.4 113.5 1.9
1.074 2080.0 100.4 114.2 2.0
1.14 2081.0 100.4 114.9 2.1
1.207 2095.0 100.4 115.9 2.2
1.275 2102.0 100.4 116.9 2.4
1.342 2112.0 100.4 117.6 2.5
1.41 2130.0 100.4 118.1 2.6
1.479 2136.0 100.4 118.8 2.7
1.55 2148.0 100.4 119.6 2.8
1.617 2161.0 100.4 120.3 2.9
1.687 2172.0 100.4 121.0 3.0
1.754 2184.0 100.4 121.5 3.1
1.821 2194.0 100.4 122.5 3.2
1.887 2206.0 100.4 123.2 3.3
1.954 2215.0 100.5 123.9 3.4
2.023 2229.0 100.4 124.4 3.5
2.091 2241.0 100.4 125.4 3.6
2.16 2256.0 100.4 125.9 3.7
2.228 2268.0 100.4 126.6 3.8
2.296 2280.0 100.4 127.2 3.9
2.363 2291.0 100.4 128.1 4.0
2.431 2293.0 100.4 128.6 4.1
2.496 2317.0 100.4 129.4 4.2
2.564 2328.0 100.4 130.1 4.3
2.631 2336.0 100.4 130.8 4.4
2.699 2352.0 100.4 131.6 4.5
2.767 2357.0 100.3 132.3 4.6
2.831 2375.0 100.3 133.5 4.8
2.899 2386.0 100.3 134.0 4.9
2.967 2403.0 100.3 134.7 5.0
3.034 2415.0 100.3 135.5 5.1
3.099 2429.0 100.3 136.1 5.2
3.167 2439.0 100.3 137.4 5.4
3.234 2451.0 100.3 137.9 5.4
3.302 2472.0 100.3 138.9 5.6
3.371 2480.0 100.3 139.6 5.7
3.438 2499.0 100.3 140.3 5.8
3.506 2508.0 100.3 141.6 6.0
3.575 2527.0 100.3 142.0 6.0
3.643 2534.0 100.3 143.0 6.2
3.711 2559.0 100.3 144.0 6.3
3.778 2571.0 100.3 144.7 6.4
3.845 2589.0 100.3 145.7 6.6
3.913 2595.0 100.3 146.5 6.7
3.98 2605.0 100.3 147.7 6.9
4.047 2622.0 100.3 148.4 7.0
4.114 2648.0 100.3 150.1 7.2
4.181 2655.0 100.3 150.3 7.2
4.248 2681.0 100.3 152.1 7.5
4.316 2680.0 100.3 152.8 7.6
4.383 2703.0 100.3 154.5 7.8
4.451 2722.0 100.3 155.0 7.9
4.518 2732.0 100.3 156.7 8.2
4.585 2760.0 100.3 157.7 8.3
4.652 2759.0 100.3 159.4 8.6
4.719 2794.0 100.5 160.9 8.8
4.786 2787.0 100.4 162.6 9.0
4.854 2832.0 100.4 163.6 9.2
4.92 2826.0 100.4 165.2 9.4
4.987 2868.0 100.4 166.7 9.6
5.055 2855.0 100.4 168.0 9.8
5.121 2894.0 100.4 169.7 10.0
5.19 2902.0 100.4 171.4 10.3
5.257 2924.0 100.4 172.8 10.5
5.324 2947.0 100.4 175.0 10.8
5.391 2965.0 100.4 176.8 11.1
5.458 2978.0 100.4 178.7 11.4
5.526 3008.0 100.4 181.4 11.7
5.593 3008.0 100.4 183.4 12.0
5.661 3039.0 100.4 185.6 12.4
5.728 3058.0 100.4 187.8 12.7
5.795 3086.0 100.4 190.9 13.1
5.862 3096.0 100.4 193.8 13.5
5.929 3133.0 100.4 196.3 13.9
5.997 3140.0 100.5 199.7 14.4
6.067 3172.0 100.5 202.4 14.8
6.134 3194.0 100.4 205.8 15.3
6.203 3212.0 100.4 209.4 15.8
6.268 3255.0 100.4 211.5 16.1
6.335 3271.0 100.4 214.1 16.5
6.402 3313.0 100.4 214.9 16.6
6.47 3335.0 100.4 215.3 16.7


5th Gear Boost Response:

@3500RPM

Time RPM TPS MAP Boost
s RPM % kPa psi
-0.27 3448 12.6 70.2 -4.3
-0.20 3456 17 80.9 -2.8
-0.13 3485 32 101.3 0.2
-0.07 3476 57.9 109.6 1.4
0.00 3480 100 113 1.9
0.07 3489 100 116.4 2.4
0.13 3496 100 120.6 3.0
0.20 3505 100 124.6 3.6
0.27 3521 100 129.1 4.2
0.34 3530 100 133.7 4.9
0.40 3540 100 138.1 5.5
0.47 3555 100 143.2 6.3
0.54 3570 100 147.8 6.9
0.60 3581 100 153.2 7.7
0.67 3599 100 158.4 8.5
0.74 3622 100 163.7 9.2
0.81 3636 100 169.4 10.1
0.87 3645 100 175.9 11.0
0.94 3668 100 181.6 11.8
1.01 3681 100 187.3 12.7
1.07 3701 100 192.9 13.5

@4500RPM

Time RPM TPS MAP Boost
s RPM % kPa psi
-0.20 4450 15.5 75.5 -3.6
-0.13 4454 23.4 96.5 -0.5
-0.07 4521 89.4 116.5 2.4
0.00 4475 100 126.4 3.8
0.07 4523 100 138.5 5.6
0.13 4516 100 151.3 7.4
0.20 4552 100 167.8 9.8
0.27 4561 100 186 12.5
0.34 4594 100 200.6 14.6
0.40 4611 100 208.7 15.8
0.47 4636 100 213.4 16.4 Boost Target


Engine is still on break in oil and process and still need some adjustments to do in the overall map.

~delete post~

Edit: format changed

I tried to post my spool data, about a month ago and i got a responce, that my post would have to be reviewed by an admin. What happened?

New people have to be approved for posting initially because of spambots and spampeeps.

Ok. Good to know.

Sooo am i approved now? :D

Engine: MZR 2.0L (factory stock 2009 NC)
Turbo: BW EFR6758 vband 0.85 A/R
Manifold: Gleason Manufacturing (Fab9 kit)
Downpipe Size/Style: 3" stainless vBand (Fab9 kit)
Exhaust Size: 3" stainless all the way back (Fab9 kit)
Exhaust Components: 3" Vibrant integrated metal cat in the midpipe + Vibrant single 3" vBand inlet / dual 2.5" outlet (Fab9 kit)
Intercooler Core Size: Treadstone 30"x9.25"x3.25" with end tanks (Fab9 kit)
Engine Management: Stock ECU + EcuTeK hybrid speed density tune for this particular run...
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: TurboSmart IWG75 dual-port actuator on a 7psi spring, 4-port MAC solenoid, eBoost2 at about 43% duty and WG pressure of 13.5psi

This was in FOURTH GEAR on a SIX SPEED transmission, but this was because the very first OE run on the dyno was also in 4th gear and I never caught it until it was too late. Wanted to be consistent in my later comparison runs... As such, I have some better spool waiting for me when I go back and have it retested on my own tune and in 5th gear as it should be.


2300RPM: 2psi
2550RPM: 3psi
2700RPM: 5psi
2900RPM: 7psi
3200RPM : 10psi
3400RPM: 12psi
3650RPM: 15psi

Nice

Reserving my spot for some shitty spool data.
Engine: Stock 94 9:1 comp
Turbo: Garrett GT2876R BB / .86 ar 5 bolt ex housing
Manifold: HKS cast top mount
Downpipe Size/Style: Divorced 2.25/1.5 downpipe -> 3in collector
Exhaust Size: 3in to rear of cat, 2.5in back
Exhaust Components: 2.25/1.5 to 3in collector 305SS downpipe, 3in flex pipe to 3in VBand, 3in FabPros Cat, 3in -> 2.5in then straight pipe back
Intercooler Core Size: 27x7x2.5 ebay shitcooler, Treadstone on its way. 2in hot side, 2.5in cold side piping
Engine Management: Megasquirt pnp2 self tuned
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: Waiting on new WG and EBC in the mail. Adjustable WG and Mac 3 port EBC

Its worse than I thought itd be.

Engine: 1.8L 1999
Turbo: TD04HL-20T, 9 Blade Turbine, 6+6 Compressor Wheel
Manifold: DIY Log (1.5'' IIRC)
Downpipe Size/Style: 2.5 to 3.0''
Exhaust Size: 3"
Exhaust Components: Big Vibrant Resonator, MT Magnaflow
Intercooler Core Size: Bar/Plate 16''x9''x4'', 2.25 in, 2.50 out, over-the-radiator plumbing
Engine Management: MS3 Pro
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: Tial 38mm EWG, 4P EBC, LS9 Coils, AC/PS, 8.7:1

Measured 290-300WHP on a MD @ 225kPa (18psi). It'll hold 275kPa to 7000RPM, haven't tried more...

For the spool data below, EBC set point was 250kPa (22 psi)

6th gear:
Starting RPM, time from 100 to 240 kpa (20psi):
3000, ~700ms
3500, ~700ms
4000, ~360ms
4500, ~230ms
5000, ~330ms (5th gear)

5th gear:

Engine: 84.5mm BP4W
Turbo: GT2560R
Manifold: FM cast
Downpipe Size/Style: FM turbine elbow, FM 2.5"
Exhaust Size: 3"
Exhaust Components: Borla XR1, custom heimholtz chamber
Intercooler Core Size: Vibrant 350hp core
Intake Manifold: Squaretop
Headwork: Stock BP4W w/ bp5a intake cam
Engine Management: Hydra 2.5
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters:
Trans & Rear End Ratio: 6 speed, 4.3 diff
Rear tire size: 225/45/15


2050 100 1.2
2100 100 1.2
2100 100 1.2
2100 100 1.2
2100 100 1.9
2150 100 1.6
2150 100 1.9
2150 100 2.2
2200 100 2.2
2200 100 2.5
2200 100 2.5
2200 100 2.5
2250 100 2.8
2250 100 2.8
2250 100 2.8
2300 100 3.1
2300 100 2.8
2300 100 3.1
2350 100 3.4
2350 100 3.1
2350 100 3.1
2400 100 3.4
2400 100 3.7
2400 100 3.7
2450 100 4.1
2450 100 4.1
2450 100 4.1
2500 100 4.4
2500 100 4.4
2550 100 4.4
2550 100 4.4
2550 100 4.7
2550 100 4.7
2600 100 5
2600 100 5.6
2650 100 5.3
2650 100 5.6
2650 100 5.6
2700 100 5.9
2700 100 6.2
2750 100 6.6
2750 100 6.9
2800 100 7.2
2800 100 7.5
2800 100 7.8
2850 100 8.4
2900 100 8.7
2900 100 8.7
2900 100 9
2950 100 9.7
2950 100 10
3000 100 10.3
3000 100 10.6
3050 100 11.2
3050 100 11.5
3100 100.4 11.9
3100 100 12.2
3150 100 12.5
3150 100 13.1
3200 100 13.1
3250 100 13.4
3250 100 13.4
3300 100 13.7
3300 100 14
3350 100.4 14

FE3 Miata V2
 

Engine: FE3 (FE-dohc) 2.0L
Turbo: $99 eBay hybrid T turbo: 50trim 50AR T4 compressor, Stage 3 63AR T3 Turbine (measured for Garrett spec match, wheel/blade contours not matched)
Manifold: SS Autochrome long tube top mount for BP, flange ported and drilled for FE
Downpipe Size/Style: 3"
Exhaust Size: 3"
Exhaust Components: Magnaflow 12589
Intercooler Core Size: eBay "delta fin" 20x12x2.5
Intake Manifold: Magnus aftermarket DSM sheetmetal mated to stock FE flange/stubs
Headwork: None (stock)
Engine Management: CoolEFI Jaguar Alpha 0.7 running FreeEMS open source code
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: 200 cell metal cat, stock Ford 65mm throttle body, 38mm eBay EWG on #4 runner, stock 1.6 coils
Trans & Rear End Ratio: Miata 5 speed, 4th gear pull, 3.6 torsen
Rear tire size: 205/50/15

RPM = PSI / KPA
1830 = onset
2500 = 3.3 / 123.15
2750 = 5.3 / 136.46
3000 = 6.8 / 146.31
3100 = 7.9 / 154.50
3200 = 9.4 / 164.66
3300 = 11.7 / 180.80
3400 = 14.3 / 198.65
3500 = 16.1 / 210.85
3609 = 22.0 / 251.99

Engine: 1.8 bp 99 Forged pistons, rods, arp all around.
Turbo: EFR6758 0.64a/r
Manifold: Trackspeed EFR T25
Downpipe Size/Style: Trackspeed EFR 3"
Exhaust Size: 3"
Exhaust Components: 3" catback, no cat
Intercooler Core Size: NRG medium size
Intake Manifold: VICS
Headwork: OEM
Engine Management: MS2pnp (waiting for ms3pro)
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: 6speed, 3.636 , audi r8 coils

FIFTH GEAR PULL: (equivalent of a 4th gear pull in a 5-speed car)

RPM Boost(psi)
2329rpm 0.4psi
2414rpm 1.6psi
2495rpm 3.19psi
2618rpm 4.35psi
2713rpm 4.93psi
2835rpm 5.8psi
3005rpm 7.25psi
3147rpm 8.7psi
3280rpm 10.8psi
3380rpm 12.3psi
3491rpm 14.8psi
3601rpm 17.5psi
3748rpm 18.9psi
3856rpm 20.3psi


Past 5000 the pressure drops. I currently have an APEXi AVCR. Waiting for MS3 and a 4 port Boost solenoid. Will update when i will tune it properly. A completely diffrent car:cool:.( Previous turbo was a GTX 2867 gen1 0.64A/R)

Now with VVT head + Skunk2 intake:
2753 3.3
2840 6
2908 8
3011 10.5
3104 12.9
3165 14.7 psi boost

Not bad for a old gt2871r 56trim :cool:

Now that I have turbos, I will log and post my spool data.

This might give yo guys an idea about my "spool".
I was on a steep uphill, lugged the engine down to 1000 rpm in second gear on purpose, and as soon as I mashed the pedal (at 1000 rpm), I had 3-4 psi.
My boost starts at idle.

oooh oooh, let's compare

4:10 + 6speed in 4th on flat ground, 1 bar boost point: 2652 RPM
(I am at 5280ft which means ambient is around 85kpa)

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...5906a6ddab.png

Give me a few weeks.
I can't hit 1 bar yet.
New engine, new setup, just started tuning, so I am taking baby steps with boost.
Max I can see at this point is about 7 - 8 psi.

Might as well make this somewhat official

Chassis: 1991
Engine: '95 block, 83.5 Wiseco 8.5:1, VVT
Turbo: GTX2867R GEN II 0.64a/r
Supercharger: MP62 Gen 4
Manifold: Begi Cast
Downpipe Size/Style: Begi Divorced
Exhaust Size: 3"
Exhaust Components: 3" Enthuza metal cat + catback
Intercooler Core Size TC: Ebay bar/plate 28"x6"x2.5" ?
Intercooler Core Size SC: Unknown core size, Bell Ubercharger FMIC
Intake Manifold: B18 Honda
Headwork: +1mm OS I/Ex, Supertech heavy doubles, mild port/polish, bowl blend, de-shroud
Engine Management: DIYautotune MS3Pro module, Westfield MX5 adapter for NB1, several custom widgets
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: 5280ft elevation (15% off the top), e85, GM D510c, 4:10:1, compound turbo-super

FIFTH GEAR PULL: (equivalent of a 4th gear pull in a 5-speed car)

RPM Mani-P TC-Boost-P Mani-Boost-P
(rpm) (kpa) (psi) (psi)
1435 83.4 -1.2 0.2
1615 126.8 1.0 6.5
1760 140.6 2.2 8.5
2006 163.5 3.8 11.8
2310 185.8 5.3 15.1
2707 208 10.1 18.3
2931 213.7 14.2 19.2
3112 202.7 14.5 17.5

Did you forget to add the SC to the Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters section?

I listed it above, but I went ahead and updated for clarity. Thanks for the suggestion.

Does anyone with a EFR or BB Garret capable of over 300 whp have rise time data like this? I'm interested mostly 2-3000 RPM range. Even "only" ~700ms from 0-20psi at 3k is noticeably laggy and feels like a slingshot.

I've found boost vs RPM data of limited use to assess low-rpm street ability and the time to spool dominates the response. None of this is a concern on the track or on an even moderate RPM WOT pull. Any flat foot shifting makes it moot as well.

At low RPM, I can get 5-10psi instantly but getting from there to 20-25 psi takes most of the time, even with the wastegate pressurized shut using a 4P EBC. I'm wondering if a lower-inertia, modern turbo would be noticeably different (<400ms from 0-20psi starting from 2-3000 RPM) than my old TD04HL-20T AR0.41.


Thanks!

Do you have any idea what sort of internal stresses are created with 20 pounds of boost at 2000 RPM? The extreme side loading of the piston skirt and the connecting rod bearings at a time when there is extraordinarily little oil being slung on to the cylinder walls and pumped to the bearings?

I understand your goals are probably different than mine, but you should know the consequences.

Hey y'all, 1.6L(egend) back again, since I got roasted when I thought 1.6's were pretty cool I had to go back and build a 'real' setup, and I could not be any happier with how this car performs. The spool is insane.

Engine: 2001 1884cc, 9.0:1 CR, w/ functional VVT (Although I can't get it to do anything below 2800)
Turbo: EFR6258, IWG, 0.64 A/R, T25 inlet
Manifold: Artech short runner bottom mount
Downpipe: Artech 3"
Exhaust Size: 3"
Exhaust Components: Catless straight pipe
Intercooler Core Size: 18.00" x 6.50" x 3.25", full 2.50" piping
Intake Manifold: Skunk2 w/ Skunk2 TB
Headwork: Mild Porting, blended bowl, no chamber work. Back-cut, stock sized valves, VS855 springs
Engine Management: MSPro
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: EBC, E85
Trans & Rear End Ratio: 5-Speed Getrag 260, 3.909
Rear tire size: 245/40R15

FOURTH GEAR PULL (1:1):

RPM Boost(psi)
2000 2.7
2100 3.6
2200 4.0
2300 4.3
2400 4.6
2500 5.1
2600 6.1
2700 7.3
2800 8.5
2900 10.2
3000 12.2
3100 13.7
3200 15.7
3300 17.8
3400 19.8
3500 21.7
Target 21psi to redline

I have no explanation for the 400 rpm difference in earlier spool. Could be due to starting the test earlier. But definitely slightly better spool from the ball bearing as you can see. Turbo holds boost till redline. The journal s13 would fall off after 6K all the way to 10.8 psi (My target is 13).
Dyno next week.

Engine: 1.8 VVT, factory pistons & rings, maxpeeding rods
Turbo: chinese journal bearing GT2871, specs as follows:
Compressor details
a/r 0.60 compressor housing
air inlet 3" air outlet 2"
inducer 54.13mm exducer 70.00mm
Turbine details
a/r 0.64
turbine housing flange:T25 flange
inducer 53.00mm exducer 46.20mm

Manifold: chinese cast tacotaco
Downpipe Size/Style: diy 2.5" for about 35cm then it steps up to 3"
Exhaust Size: 3" Kraken
Exhaust Components: Kraken 3" SS with magnaflow rear muffler
Intercooler Core Size: 320x280x76mm, over the rad pipe setup
Intake Manifold: Stock
Headwork: Stock
Engine Management: Ecumaster EMU Classic
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: Mac Valve/me diy mapping it :)
Trans & Rear End Ratio: 5 speed, 4.1 diff
Rear tire size: 195/50 R15
3rd gear pull

to be fair, i'm not very pleased with the spool times of my setup, so i'll be swapping the exhaust manifold for a second hand but unused Kraken unit that I bought for a very reasonable price. I'd like to change the turbocharger aswell, so if you guys know of t25 flanged, chinese/cheap unit that spools faster let me know. Also seen some ebay churbos with same turbine wheel size but in a .49 A/R housing, so if I can find a smaller housing I'll definitely try it.

Ok, enough chit chat, here's the chinacharger spool data:

Time RPM TPS Boost AFR
159.91 1947 100 0.73 15
159.96 1939 100 0.73 15
160.01 1935 100 0.73 15
160.06 1948 100 0.73 15
160.11 1973 100 0.73 15
160.16 1990 100 0.73 15
160.21 1997 100 0.73 15
160.26 2003 100 0.87 14.8
160.31 2014 100 0.73 14.9
160.36 2022 100 0.87 14.7
160.41 2049 100 0.87 14.7
160.46 2056 100 0.73 14.7
160.51 2051 100 0.87 14.7
160.56 2088 100 0.87 14.7
160.61 2098 100 0.87 14.6
160.66 2104 100 1.02 14.6
160.71 2122 100 0.87 14.5
160.76 2138 100 1.16 14.6
160.81 2143 100 1.02 14.5
160.86 2148 100 1.02 14.7
160.91 2174 100 1.16 14.7
160.96 2199 100 1.16 14.7
161.01 2217 100 1.31 14.8
161.06 2216 100 1.16 14.7
161.11 2220 100 1.31 14.7
161.16 2260 100 1.45 14.4
161.21 2278 100 1.45 14
161.26 2281 100 1.31 13.9
161.31 2282 100 1.45 13.8
161.36 2298 100 1.6 13.9
161.41 2325 100 1.6 13.9
161.46 2352 100 1.6 13.9
161.51 2358 100 1.74 13.9
161.56 2360 100 1.74 13.8
161.61 2393 100 1.74 13.7
161.66 2412 100 1.74 13.7
161.71 2438 100 1.74 13.7
161.76 2449 100 2.03 13.6
161.81 2448 100 2.18 13.4
161.86 2471 100 2.03 13.4
161.91 2507 100 2.18 13.4
161.96 2527 100 2.32 13.4
162.01 2527 100 2.47 13.3
162.06 2549 100 2.32 13.2
162.11 2577 100 2.47 13.2
162.16 2599 100 2.61 13.2
162.21 2622 100 2.61 13.1
162.26 2636 100 2.47 13.1
162.31 2651 100 2.76 13
162.36 2660 100 2.9 12.9
162.41 2690 100 3.05 12.9
162.46 2719 100 3.05 12.9
162.51 2735 100 3.05 12.6
162.56 2744 100 3.19 12.5
162.61 2765 100 3.19 12.4
162.66 2798 100 3.34 12.4
162.71 2810 100 3.48 12.4
162.76 2828 100 3.34 12.4
162.81 2858 100 3.48 12.4
162.86 2867 100 3.63 12.4
162.91 2880 100 3.48 12.4
162.96 2904 100 3.77 12.4
163.01 2934 100 3.77 12.2
163.06 2954 100 3.77 12.2
163.11 2961 100 3.77 12.2
163.16 2984 100 4.06 12.2
163.21 3011 100 3.92 12.2
163.26 3024 100 4.06 12.3
163.31 3040 100 4.06 12.3
163.36 3081 100 4.35 12.3
163.41 3095 100 4.35 12.3
163.46 3100 100 4.64 12.4
163.51 3140 100 4.64 12.4
163.56 3168 100 4.93 12.4
163.61 3183 100 4.93 12.3
163.66 3209 100 5.08 12.3
163.71 3223 100 5.22 12.3
163.76 3242 100 5.08 12.2
163.81 3288 100 5.37 12.2
163.86 3302 100 5.37 12.2
163.91 3312 100 5.66 12.2
163.96 3337 100 5.66 12.2
164.01 3375 100 5.8 12.2
164.06 3413 100 5.95 12.2
164.11 3404 100 6.24 12.2
164.16 3430 100 6.24 12.1
164.21 3487 100 6.53 12.1
164.26 3494 100 6.53 12.1
164.31 3513 100 7.11 12.1
164.36 3567 100 7.11 11.9
164.41 3579 100 7.4 11.9
164.46 3592 100 7.69 11.9
164.51 3630 100 7.69 11.8
164.56 3674 100 7.98 11.8
164.61 3687 100 8.41 11.8
164.66 3728 100 8.85 11.8
164.71 3760 100 9.14 11.8
164.76 3814 100 9.43 11.8
164.81 3859 100 9.86 11.8
164.86 3803 100 10.15 11.8
164.91 3853 100 10.73 11.8
164.96 3940 100 11.46 11.8
165.01 3980 100 11.46 11.8
165.06 4020 100 11.46 11.8
165.11 4043 100 13.2 11.7
165.16 4041 100 13.63 11.7
165.21 4079 100 14.07 11.7
165.26 4153 100 14.65 11.6
165.31 4175 100 15.23 11.6
165.36 4246 100 15.66 11.6
165.41 4242 100 15.95 11.6
165.46 4314 100 16.24 11.6
165.51 4358 100 16.24 11.6
165.56 4401 100 16.24 11.6
165.61 4397 100 16.24 11.6
165.66 4420 100 16.24 11.6
165.71 4495 100 15.95 11.6
165.76 4578 100 15.52 11.7
165.81 4578 100 15.23 11.7
165.86 4580 100 15.23 11.7
165.91 4645 100 15.23 11.7
165.96 4722 100 14.94 11.7
166.01 4734 100 14.94 11.7
166.06 4745 100 14.79 11.7
166.11 4777 100 14.94 11.7
166.16 4827 100 14.94 11.7
166.21 4892 100 15.23 11.7
166.26 4923 100 15.08 11.7
166.31 4912 100 15.66 11.6
166.36 4971 100 15.66 11.6
166.41 5021 100 16.1 11.7
166.46 5094 100 15.52 11.7
166.51 5078 100 15.52 11.7
166.56 5076 100 15.95 11.7
166.61 5150 100 16.39 11.7
166.66 5202 100 16.39 11.7
166.71 5242 100 16.68 11.7
166.76 5265 100 16.39 11.7
166.81 5271 100 15.81 11.6
166.86 5273 100 15.52 11.6
166.91 5324 100 15.52 11.6
166.96 5402 100 15.52 11.6
167.01 5431 100 14.79 11.6
167.06 5443 100 14.94 11.5
167.11 5469 100 15.23 11.5
167.16 5477 100 15.52 11.6
167.21 5495 100 15.66 11.6
167.26 5579 100 15.81 11.6
167.31 5622 100 15.37 11.6
167.36 5644 100 15.23 11.6
167.41 5667 100 15.08 11.6
167.46 5673 100 15.52 11.6
167.51 5696 100 15.81 11.6
167.56 5719 100 15.95 11.6
167.61 5719 100 15.95 11.6
167.66 5719 100 15.95 11.6
167.71 5875 100 15.95 11.6
167.76 5885 100 15.81 11.5
167.81 5919 100 15.66 11.6
167.86 5897 100 15.23 11.6
167.91 5926 100 15.23 11.6
167.96 5961 100 15.08 11.6
168.01 5995 100 14.94 11.5
168.06 6042 100 14.79 11.5
168.11 6077 100 14.79 11.5
168.16 6088 100 14.65 11.5
168.21 6070 100 14.65 11.5
168.26 6122 100 14.79 11.5
168.31 6169 100 14.79 11.5
168.36 6190 100 14.79 11.5
168.41 6230 100 14.79 11.5
168.46 6250 100 14.65 11.5
168.51 6246 100 14.79 11.5
168.56 6289 100 14.65 11.4
168.61 6321 100 14.65 11.4
168.66 6327 100 14.65 11.4
168.71 6351 100 14.65 11.4
168.76 6374 100 14.5 11.4
168.81 6417 100 14.5 11.4
168.86 6422 100 14.5 11.4
168.91 6473 100 14.36 11.4
168.96 6504 100 14.36 11.4
169.01 6501 100 14.21 11.4
169.06 6531 100 14.07 11.4
169.11 6568 100 13.78 11.4
169.16 6581 100 13.92 11.4
169.21 6613 100 14.07 11.4
169.26 6645 100 14.07 11.4
169.31 6654 100 14.21 11.4
169.36 6662 100 14.21 11.4
169.41 6724 100 14.5 11.3
169.46 6715 100 14.65 11.3
169.51 6732 100 14.94 11.3
169.56 6765 100 14.65 11.1
169.61 6776 100 14.36 11.1
169.66 6801 100 14.07 11.1
169.71 6838 100 14.36 11.1
169.76 6839 100 14.36 11.1
169.81 6866 100 14.5 11.1
169.86 6893 100 14.65 11.1
169.91 6920 100 14.79 11
169.96 6942 100 14.5 11
170.01 6962 100 14.21 10.9
170.06 6950 100 14.65 10.9
170.11 6983 100 14.65 10.9
170.16 7035 100 14.79 10.9
170.21 7055 100 14.5 10.9
170.26 7075 100 14.21 10.9
170.31 7074 100 14.21 10.9
170.36 7072 100 14.21 10.9
170.41 7105 100 14.07 10.8
170.46 7136 100 14.21 10.8

I'll add mine, it spools a lot slower than I was expecting. Probably should have started at a lower rpm.

Engine: Stock 1994 1.8L
Turbo: GT2554r
Manifold: Kraken cast manifold
Downpipe: Kraken 2.5"
Exhaust Size: 2.5"
Exhaust Components: Catless, magnaflow straight thru muffler
Head: Stock 94 head
Intake:Stock 1.6 TB with 1.8 manifold
Boost control: Open loop EBC, clamped shut until 3000 rpms
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: 5,000ft elevation (83kpa ambient), basemap ignition timing
Trans & Diff: 5-Speed with 4.1 Type 1 Torsen
Rear tire size: 195/50R15

FOURTH GEAR PULL:

RPM - MAP - PSI
2234 90.6 1.10
2290 95.6 1.83
2343 100.6 2.55
2421 105.9 3.32
2494 111.4 4.12
2570 116.6 4.87
2643 122.2 5.69
2726 128.0 6.53
2811 134.5 7.47
2901 141.4 8.47
2986 148.8 9.54
3096 156.1 10.60
3189 162.2 11.49
3311 168.7 12.43
3425 176.6 13.58
3547 183.6 14.59



https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...fcdc49b3eb.png

altitude is a bitch, this point would be at ~3000RPM at sea level. EBC would help a little.

EFR 6758s don't spool till around 4700-4800 at this altitude, 6258 is ~4250

edits: mobile fixes

Wow, a 500 rpm spool delay sucks. Didnt know it was that bad from elevation gain

Still a lot of fun to drive it though :D

Spool data
 

Engine: '96 8.5:1 Weisco, Manley rods Pump 93
Turbo: GTX2876R Gen 2
Manifold: Flyin Miata
Downpipe Size/Style: Flyin Miata Full 3"
Exhaust Size: 3"
Intercooler Core Size: Cx racing WRX STI front mount
Intercooler piping:Flyin Miata
Intake Manifold: stock 96
Headwork: stock 96 head
Engine Management: Megasquirt
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: Fab 9 COPs
Trans & Rear End Ratio: 6-speed, 4.1 Torsen
Rear tire size: 205/45-15

FIFTH GEAR PULL:
SAME AS 4TH IN A 5 SPEED

RPM PSI
2000 1.2
2197 2.3
2307 2.7
2404 3.5
2506 4.2
2603 4.9
2713 5.6
2818 6.6
2920 7.6
3037 8.9
3123 10.4
3274 12.5
3365 14.4
3479 16.8
3595 19.1
3667 21.1
3765 22.7


Usually will run 29psi, car is turned down for the small all seasons I have on it

Thats some nice spool for one of the bigger turbos.

Is there a GTX2876 Gen2 or is it a typo and you're running a GTX2867 Gen2?

How much power?

Not a typo, GTX2876R gen2
car dynod at 350 wheel spinning on the dyno. I'm estimating 360 at least.

Engine: Stock 1996 1.8L; ARP head studs and new head gasket
Turbo: GT2560R
Manifold: Kraken low-mount cast manifold
Downpipe: Kraken 3"
Exhaust Size: Kraken 3"
Exhaust Components: Catless w/Magnaflow muffler
Head: Stock 96 head; mild intake and exhaust port and polish
Intake: Ebay intercooler; NB throttle body; stock 96 manifold
Boost control: EBC equipped but off (no open or CL boost control) for testing new actuator
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: FF LS coils; Braineack timing map; Turbosmart IWG75 w/10psi spring and improperly set preload; 25*F IAT
Trans & Diff: 5-Speed with 4.1 Type 1 Torsen
Rear tire size: 225/50R15

FOURTH GEAR PULL:

RPM - MAP - PSI
1990 - 99.9 - 0
2110 - 110 - 1.5
2292 - 121.6 - 3.2
2485 - 130.6 - 4.5
2708 - 140 - 5.9
2933 - 150.2 - 7.3
3058 - 154.8 - 8.0
4380 - 159.7 - 8.7 (ended pull here)

8psi isn't going to blow anyone's mind, but without EBC and improper actuator preload, I expect good results when I get it dialed in. I can't wait to get my other motor finished. Boost is addictive.