If you had to do it all over again, 2010 edition.
01-22-2010, 08:50 AM
#44
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First, I have to say I'm a little surprised about all the v8 swaps responses. I had no idea so many people wanted that (especially in a forum called miataturbo 
).
This is the kind of response I was hoping for on this thread. Well thought out, describing the build and power level target. The latter was particularly interesting and I agree there can be such a thing as too much power.
I have to ask though, would you really go with the Carillo's when something like an M-Tuned might be more than good enough at 300+ hp? I'm not asking about some hyphotetical dream build here, but rather what you'd actually put in your car in real life if you just got your first miata (but had the benefit of your previous experience).
Keep the builds coming!
). If I had to start over I'd go LS if the options include a V-8 swap.
If you're talking about staying with the 4 cylinder Miata engine, and I had an endless budget, then I know exactly what I'd do.
Carillo H beam rods, Wiseco +1mm pistons, I think I'd run somewhere like 600cc injectors, FM Level II clutch, MS2 Standalone, EBC, LC-1, I'd probably use a custom absurb flow manifold with 3" DP all the way back to maybe a small bullet style muffler? I'd run an internally wastegated GT2871. I would want about 7psi on wastegate, and maybe 18-20psi on EBC. I'd want about 325whp. If anybody has ever rode in a miata with a turbo'd 4 and that much *****, then they'd realize that there is no reason anybody needs that kind of power. Sometimes I'm glad I have a limited car expense and have under 250whp, cause to me, my car hauls ***. I can't even imagine what cars like Jay-L and Paul's Red Beast feel like!
If you're talking about staying with the 4 cylinder Miata engine, and I had an endless budget, then I know exactly what I'd do.
Carillo H beam rods, Wiseco +1mm pistons, I think I'd run somewhere like 600cc injectors, FM Level II clutch, MS2 Standalone, EBC, LC-1, I'd probably use a custom absurb flow manifold with 3" DP all the way back to maybe a small bullet style muffler? I'd run an internally wastegated GT2871. I would want about 7psi on wastegate, and maybe 18-20psi on EBC. I'd want about 325whp. If anybody has ever rode in a miata with a turbo'd 4 and that much *****, then they'd realize that there is no reason anybody needs that kind of power. Sometimes I'm glad I have a limited car expense and have under 250whp, cause to me, my car hauls ***. I can't even imagine what cars like Jay-L and Paul's Red Beast feel like!
I have to ask though, would you really go with the Carillo's when something like an M-Tuned might be more than good enough at 300+ hp? I'm not asking about some hyphotetical dream build here, but rather what you'd actually put in your car in real life if you just got your first miata (but had the benefit of your previous experience).
Keep the builds coming!
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01-22-2010, 11:29 AM
#48
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First, I have to say I'm a little surprised about all the v8 swaps responses. I had no idea so many people wanted that (especially in a forum called miataturbo ).
This is the kind of response I was hoping for on this thread. Well thought out, describing the build and power level target. The latter was particularly interesting and I agree there can be such a thing as too much power.
I have to ask though, would you really go with the Carillo's when something like an M-Tuned might be more than good enough at 300+ hp? I'm not asking about some hyphotetical dream build here, but rather what you'd actually put in your car in real life if you just got your first miata (but had the benefit of your previous experience).
Keep the builds coming!
). This is the kind of response I was hoping for on this thread. Well thought out, describing the build and power level target. The latter was particularly interesting and I agree there can be such a thing as too much power.
I have to ask though, would you really go with the Carillo's when something like an M-Tuned might be more than good enough at 300+ hp? I'm not asking about some hyphotetical dream build here, but rather what you'd actually put in your car in real life if you just got your first miata (but had the benefit of your previous experience).
Keep the builds coming!
FM Kit with no management, GT 2560, 550cc RX-7 injectors, Adaptronic (99-00) MSPNP for 97-back, 3" exhaust, FM Level II clutch. I'd leave the internals completely stock. This would give you a very dependable setup with parts that actually fit correctly. The PNP ECU's also mean there is no custom ECU work on your part. Also remember this: People always say "more boost". More boost is ok, but it's not the amount of boost that creates power, it's the volume of air being moved. For example, you can run a SR20 turbo at 14psi, and actually make more power at 10psi with a 2871. The reason isn't cause of the psi amount, it's cause the 2871 moves a higher volume of air.
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01-22-2010, 11:40 AM
#49
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I only listed the rods and pistons cause of the boost amount I would run with a 2871 turbo. If I wanted to do what I think you want to you, (budget and don't want to waste a lot of time) then it would be like this:
FM Kit with no management, GT 2560, 550cc RX-7 injectors, Adaptronic (99-00) MSPNP for 97-back, 3" exhaust, FM Level II clutch. I'd leave the internals completely stock. This would give you a very dependable setup with parts that actually fit correctly. The PNP ECU's also mean there is no custom ECU work on your part. Also remember this: People always say "more boost". More boost is ok, but it's not the amount of boost that creates power, it's the volume of air being moved. For example, you can run a SR20 turbo at 14psi, and actually make more power at 10psi with a 2871. The reason isn't cause of the psi amount, it's cause the 2871 moves a higher volume of air.
FM Kit with no management, GT 2560, 550cc RX-7 injectors, Adaptronic (99-00) MSPNP for 97-back, 3" exhaust, FM Level II clutch. I'd leave the internals completely stock. This would give you a very dependable setup with parts that actually fit correctly. The PNP ECU's also mean there is no custom ECU work on your part. Also remember this: People always say "more boost". More boost is ok, but it's not the amount of boost that creates power, it's the volume of air being moved. For example, you can run a SR20 turbo at 14psi, and actually make more power at 10psi with a 2871. The reason isn't cause of the psi amount, it's cause the 2871 moves a higher volume of air.
Edit: Basically I was questioning the need for going for a part rated for 1000+ hp vs a 600+ one, when your goals are 300+ and whether you'd actually spend the money to do so.
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01-22-2010, 11:55 AM
#50
I have to say, as someone who can't answer the "if you had to do it all over again" question, since I haven't actually started the process (other than collecting parts), all the V8 responses sure are interesting.
It seems like the cost-benefit ratio is solidly in favor of turbo setups up to 220-240 WHP. Once people start trying to crack the 250 WHP mark, the costs increase so rapidly (and the improvements are so marginal) that the V8 looks like the wiser choice.
Should I be considering selling the turbo stuff I've acquired so far, and just setting aside money till I can go whole hog with an LSx setup?
I know that's the $64,000 question, and I'm not really looking for someone to tell me what to do...it's just killing me. I'm a few parts away from being able to start the turbo build, and I'd hate to waste money/work/time on it if 2 years from now I'll be wishing I'd just waited and gone straight for the V8.
It seems like the cost-benefit ratio is solidly in favor of turbo setups up to 220-240 WHP. Once people start trying to crack the 250 WHP mark, the costs increase so rapidly (and the improvements are so marginal) that the V8 looks like the wiser choice.
Should I be considering selling the turbo stuff I've acquired so far, and just setting aside money till I can go whole hog with an LSx setup?
I know that's the $64,000 question, and I'm not really looking for someone to tell me what to do...it's just killing me. I'm a few parts away from being able to start the turbo build, and I'd hate to waste money/work/time on it if 2 years from now I'll be wishing I'd just waited and gone straight for the V8.
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01-22-2010, 02:52 PM
#55
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I wish I had chosen v-bands from the start, but I'm very happy with where the car sits now.
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01-22-2010, 03:08 PM
#56
This guy doesn't even have a turbo yet and he's already wise to this rule.
Goals and budget help...as it's really an open ended question.
For what I wanted at the time, and what my means were...I probably wouldn't have changed a thing, except maybe not being so afraid of whipping out the welder and saving some dough.
It's easy to say "keep saving up for something awesome"...but I remember what stinkin' N/A power was like...and I don't miss it.
I'm struggling with iteration 2.0, and part of me says to keep saving and make it everything I want this time around instead of continual, costly, gradual steps. The only part of this that doesn't hurt is that I enjoy changing up my setup every season, and learn something new every time.
I honestly would not enjoy a set-it-and-forget-it setup, even if it had the power and character I wanted. I love to keep modifying and changing things...and even though I tell myself I'm working towards some definite goal, I know that goal is always moving.
Just enjoy the ride.
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01-22-2010, 03:47 PM
#57
That's becuase some of us have been turbo and either have a V8 car now or are building one at present.
Some (ZX_Tex) are lucky enough to have both. I parted mine a couple of months ago as a promise to my wife (and myself) that I would get rid of the turbo car if I did a V8. Had I not done it already, I would have started rationalizing keeping both.
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01-22-2010, 03:52 PM
#58
Should I be considering selling the turbo stuff I've acquired so far, and just setting aside money till I can go whole hog with an LSx setup?
I know that's the $64,000 question, and I'm not really looking for someone to tell me what to do...it's just killing me. I'm a few parts away from being able to start the turbo build, and I'd hate to waste money/work/time on it if 2 years from now I'll be wishing I'd just waited and gone straight for the V8.
I know that's the $64,000 question, and I'm not really looking for someone to tell me what to do...it's just killing me. I'm a few parts away from being able to start the turbo build, and I'd hate to waste money/work/time on it if 2 years from now I'll be wishing I'd just waited and gone straight for the V8.
5.0's are cheaper and easier to DIY. LS1's stock HP equal my built one and can easily surpass it. Some are going to the truck L33 for 5.0 money and LS1 power with bolt ons. The choices are many.
There are some build sheets posted up over on M.net with REAL costs from completed or almost complete builds. They are representative of your true cost.
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01-22-2010, 04:04 PM
#60
I'm pretty well settled on just continuing my turbo build...I think it fits my goals better and will be more than enough car for me. It's just a little spooky to see the guys that are 3 or 4 years ahead of me on the turbo path all saying "LS1".
Only you can answer that. That said, it's going to be $10K to do a 5.0/T5, $14K to do an LS1/T56. Really? Ya, really. People think they can do it cheaper and they are right if they want to fab everything like I am, but most go with a kit.
5.0's are cheaper and easier to DIY. LS1's stock HP equal my built one and can easily surpass it. Some are going to the truck L33 for 5.0 money and LS1 power with bolt ons. The choices are many.
There are some build sheets posted up over on M.net with REAL costs from completed or almost complete builds. They are representative of your true cost.
5.0's are cheaper and easier to DIY. LS1's stock HP equal my built one and can easily surpass it. Some are going to the truck L33 for 5.0 money and LS1 power with bolt ons. The choices are many.
There are some build sheets posted up over on M.net with REAL costs from completed or almost complete builds. They are representative of your true cost.
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