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Old 07-20-2007, 02:53 AM   #21
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got any pics with the bumper on, taken from the front?
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:32 AM   #22
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You were seeing a 30C rise? I barely see a 10F rise. 27x6 core. Mabye a longer core does do something for intake temps.
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:20 AM   #23
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Yes - the ambient was higher on this most recent datalog at 33c vs. the previous at 28c. Some factors that might contribute to the rise:
a/c condenser installed
super thick radiator (double 1" core)
larger (t4) compressor
larger displacement engine
less free space in the engine bay

I'm thinking that some of that stuff is creating a greater resistance for air to flow through the intercooler. And that's why I'm considering "hole in the hood". I'd be curious to see the air temp prior to the cooler too.

Koto- I don't have a pic of the front with the bumper cover on. I installed the cooler as-is to see if the position made a change in the oil temps first. The right angle fittings I had on it are epoxied in place so that forces the lines down a bit and makes the visible from the front- along with the fact that the -10 lines are too long for the current position and the slack shows up front. The cooler is NOT visible unless you put your head below the top of the mouth. I think that the lines could be hidden- the biggest issue would be where they exit the mouth on the pax side. At this point I'm think the cooler just isn't big enough, so I'll probably look for one twice as wide (current cooler is tiny #B7B) and then adjust the lines/fittings.

Rd Atl - practice/qualifying on Sat, race is first thing Sun. am. ITA 63 Miata.
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Old 07-20-2007, 04:23 PM   #24
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Also what may help your temps would be a scoop for the rad.. kinda like the begi scoop....

http://bellengineering.net/Images/1....r_inst3_Sm.jpg

this way you can get some fresh air to your rad....i would still try the hood scoop also

well... cya at Road tomorrow
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Old 07-20-2007, 11:44 PM   #25
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Default from inter to oil cooler

I'm ranking the new oil cooler location a dismal failure. I thought there was some high pressure there, but apparently not. Oil temps are now 30f higher than the previously location - in front of the condenser, above the lil' intercooler. Cruising at 4k rpm I now see 270f oil temps (that used to be the peak for successive boosting). Not sure what to do next- but I think I need a bigger oil cooler. This might require staring at the front of the car for a bit and look for some open space... Any bright ideas?

Not so big on the scooper idea- besides ugly, it doesn't work well with the lip spoiler. Miata will be there Sun. - have too much crap to haul up Sat. - rob
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Old 07-21-2007, 12:30 AM   #26
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mount an electric fan to oil cooler and put it wherever it fits.
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Old 07-21-2007, 01:19 PM   #27
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The SCC "time attack" miata has the oil cooler hung in front of the pass side wheel, might work if you are willing to rework all your ducting.
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:30 AM   #28
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I'm going to put the fan and wheel well solutions down on the list. The fan is a good idea for the traffic light stops- could run it off the rad fan relay. I have that wheel well install bookmarked, just wonder if I can get enough air to it at speed with the single spoiler duct. And if there's enough room in there for a larger cooler. What I might do is move the oil cooler down below the intercooler, in front of the radiator - BUT looking at the photo, the damn 90s may make it too tall - putting the cooler as the lowest front point. Bad idea. I considered rotating the oil cooler forward of the rad and placing it flush with the bottom of the pan/shroud and using a scoop to force air through it. The question is, where should the scoop go, top (in the mouth) or bottom (under the mouth shroud)? That would allow for a much larger oil cooler too.

btw - since it was mentioned - finally had a good race weekend. We (ITA Miata) led OVERALL most laps in the enduro, was in first overall with 2 laps to go, finished first in class, second overall. Nice to see the rwd Miata outrunning all the fwd hondas in the rain. Props to "emerilnut" - our winning crew chief. - rob
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:56 AM   #29
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Talking a diagram for those who care

First image is the current mouth shroud arrangement. Second shows the oil cooler in the lower angled position with an "interior" scoop. And the second shows the oppositie - BUT now I'm think I can feed positive pressure to it from both spoiler ducts. Is this not a similar engineering approach to the BEGI "scooper"? Or will the positive pressure from the ducts just work against the air coming in to the mouth?

Ben- re: the hood - Is this something I can put hood pin holes in? or are you going to use this as a final hood with some paint?
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Old 07-23-2007, 11:47 AM   #30
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FM put some long lines on their oil cooler, cut a hole in the REAR bumper, and mounted it there. they found some hood high pressure areas back there. maybe it was the tranny cooler...forget, its on their track dog.
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Old 07-23-2007, 02:07 PM   #31
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What intercooler is that? Is that a Megan racing?
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Old 07-23-2007, 11:02 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
First image is the current mouth shroud arrangement. Second shows the oil cooler in the lower angled position with an "interior" scoop. And the second shows the oppositie - BUT now I'm think I can feed positive pressure to it from both spoiler ducts. Is this not a similar engineering approach to the BEGI "scooper"? Or will the positive pressure from the ducts just work against the air coming in to the mouth?

Ben- re: the hood - Is this something I can put hood pin holes in? or are you going to use this as a final hood with some paint?
with diagram 2, wouldn't the air flow from the scoop be forcing air into a high air pressure zone... it looks to me like that area would not have smooth air flow and cause poor pull through the cooler... now flip the cooler and force the air to go to the back of the car would seem like it would pull better air...

now diagram 3 seem like it would work great just need to collect the air into some simple ducting to direct it at the cooler....

I still think a good placment in the wheelwell with some good ducting would work. Get some air ducting and pull some air up to it....

I will have to look, some on CR cut two holes in his front bumper for air flow... not sure if it would be your style but I will try and find the link to his car... has a vent in the upper front bumper for airflow to the rad also.


nice to meet you again
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Old 07-23-2007, 11:35 PM   #33
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another option would be to get a serious oil to water cooler.
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Old 07-24-2007, 10:38 AM   #34
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IC is chinacooler off eBay. Same or similar to one used by a lot here, and sold by the same group under various ebay names.

The air directly behind the spoiler is low pressure (that's what the spoiler does). So the high pressure in the mouth should move right thru the cooler. On the third image, I'm guessing the problem will be getting the air all the way over to the cooler from the spoiler ducts. It'll probably be an 80* angle from the spoiler to the cooler. It may be worth it just to build out that area with more plastic - like a housing vs. running hose. Don't want to put any holes in the bumper skin. Trying to keep things more or less stock looking. Glad u made it out to the track- too bad you couldn't see us run - BUT understand not wanting to rise at 5:30am too.

I've actually considered the oil to water cooler. I could use the stock unit and create a separate circuit for it using an exchanger and pump from a water/air intercooler. But again, I'm stuck with having to position the exchanger somewhere and then having another fluid circuit. - rob
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:48 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
The air directly behind the spoiler is low pressure (that's what the spoiler does). So the high pressure in the mouth should move right thru the cooler. On the third image, I'm guessing the problem will be getting the air all the way over to the cooler from the spoiler ducts. It'll probably be an 80* angle from the spoiler to the cooler. It may be worth it just to build out that area with more plastic - like a housing vs. running hose. Don't want to put any holes in the bumper skin. Trying to keep things more or less stock looking. Glad u made it out to the track- too bad you couldn't see us run - BUT understand not wanting to rise at 5:30am too.
Well if it is a low pressure...was not sure... you could mount your unit(like diagram 2) and then get a small fan and mount it to help pull more air through..

I would say that the oil to watercooler would suck... come from DSM were people remove the oil to water cooler for an oil to air cooler, I think going backwards would be weird. I know that main reason DSMer remove it was the coolent was still to warm to effective cool the oil... plus a few reported a drop in coolent temps after removing the oil to water cooler. With the miata have heating issues I would worry about getting heating issues with the oil to water.... Something to think about.

I understand the not wanting to cut holes in your bumper, you car did look really stock and I drove by it before I realized it was your car.

Bryan

BTW I had not even gone to bed by 5:30 am on sunday....lol
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Old 07-24-2007, 05:26 PM   #36
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Absolutely I don't think the 3rd picture would work. Even if you could get the ducting direct. The air would not want to flow from the high pressure right in front of the lip across the low pressure in front of the oil cooler and in the ducting, through the oil cooler and back out to a high pressure area in front of the other radiators.

I don't like the second option because idealy you don't want to pump as much air under the car as possible, you want as little air as possible disturbing the under car flow, this will cause turbulance and for the air to slow across the bottom and cause lift.

Weel well seems best option. I feel like the first set up would work well if you had a prior set up and a V mount in addition. From what I've heard v mounts including a oil cooler are picking up popularity. They have been come to be called "Z mounts" as it were.
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Old 07-24-2007, 05:37 PM   #37
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Old 07-24-2007, 06:03 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MX_Eva View Post
Absolutely I don't think the 3rd picture would work. Even if you could get the ducting direct. The air would not want to flow from the high pressure right in front of the lip across the low pressure in front of the oil cooler and in the ducting, through the oil cooler and back out to a high pressure area in front of the other radiators.

I don't like the second option because idealy you don't want to pump as much air under the car as possible, you want as little air as possible disturbing the under car flow, this will cause turbulance and for the air to slow across the bottom and cause lift.

Weel well seems best option. I feel like the first set up would work well if you had a prior set up and a V mount in addition. From what I've heard v mounts including a oil cooler are picking up popularity. They have been come to be called "Z mounts" as it were.
Yea the Z mount system seem to be on the raise now days.

Mechazawa that reminds me of the powersteering cooler on FM website. That same system may work well for oil cooler.

Another option would be the dual cooler from FM. http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?...0%20%201999-05
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Old 07-24-2007, 09:12 PM   #39
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No room for V or Z mount with engine swap. Anybody have that oil cooler in the fender well bookmarked?
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Old 07-24-2007, 10:14 PM   #40
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#3 looks good. If there is a lack of flow, you could just shroud the area in front and to the sides of the oil cooler, this would ensure the pressure zone behind it is directly into a spot on the radiator and low pressure.

my **** poor rendering:


Last edited by Braineack; 07-24-2007 at 10:30 PM.
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