Maximum boost v. external wastegate spring - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 09-20-2012, 11:25 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
It is a FACT that leafy is a ******* retard and pulls complete and utter bullshit out of his *** with every one of his posts.

I would quote all the retardation but that would take a day or two.


Fair enough. I'll just throw that out then.

Hugs?
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:27 AM   #22
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Not sure why we're fighting we're saying the same thing.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:28 AM   #23
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what does your boost gauge actually read with the 2 different springs?

EDIT: without the mbc
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:28 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
No. Just run the standard config. Its not going to effect spool, it'll just effect the max boost you can run and spool if you're trying to push past the cracking limit of your current wastegate spring setup.
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Simply put: NO..
Dual port increases response not increases pressure. The spring increases pressure.
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Not sure why we're fighting we're saying the same thing.

Clearly not.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:30 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by fastivab6tg25mr View Post
what does your boost gauge actually read with the 2 different springs?
14psi. With a boost controller of course.

But i believe you might be missing the issue. I'm simply trying to stretch a little past theoretical limits while avoiding a shitty spool. It's really that simple. And i probably should have just kept it that simple.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:32 AM   #26
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I was talking about the spring and he was talking about the dual port. I'm half paying attention to a meeting so I may have left out a sentence for clarity.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:34 AM   #27
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14psi. With a boost controller of course.

But i believe you might be missing the issue. I'm simply trying to stretch a little past theoretical limits while avoiding a shitty spool. It's really that simple. And i probably should have just kept it that simple.
im asking because if you take the mbc out and run the 2 springs w/o control it will let you know which spring has the higher rating.
will one spring fit inside the other? if so put em both in
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:36 AM   #28
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I was talking about the spring and he was talking about the dual port. I'm half paying attention to a meeting so I may have left out a sentence for clarity.
Ugh. So half your attention is even worse than normal? I wasn't asking about what to do about the spring. That's already set in stone. If i get the 14psi spring from Turbosmart in time (50/50 chance), then i'll run that. If i don't, i'm running the 7psi spring, and just needed to know if there were any valid options to keep it happier at higher pressures. That's all.


This thread is a ******' trainwreck. I'm thinking about posting the same thing on ClubFagster just to see what sort of bullshit comes out for the lulz.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:38 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastivab6tg25mr View Post
im asking because if you take the mbc out and run the 2 springs w/o control it will let you know which spring has the higher rating.
will one spring fit inside the other? if so put em both in
The 7psi spring is stronger than the "10psi" spring that isn't actually for my wastegate. I don't really need to remove the MBC to figure that out. Even with a ball/spring, the wastegate is getting blown wide open by my crazy awesome motor at like 8psi.

I thought about stacking them, but they're too similar in OD.

The GOOD news is that i will be able to stack the 14psi and 7psi springs if i end up having enough fuel to want to crack 30psi.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:45 AM   #30
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Ok, say you dont put the vac line on the wastegate at all. It will stay closed until the exhaust backpressure pushing on the diaphragm is greater than the spring pressure then it will start to crack open. It will spool like a normal car with a boost controller up to this point. After that point it will spool like a car without a mbc that is getting wastegate cracking. Now if you connect it like normal then the car will spool like normal until the the exhaust pressure + the boost pressure (coming through the mbc) is high enough to overcome the spring pressure. If the requested boost (from the mbc) is higher than that cracking exhaust pressure I mentioned earlier then it wont spool as hard. Eventually you'll make enough gas pressure that no matter what you set the mbc to the wastegate will be all the way open and you wont be able to make more boost.

So right now if it spools perfectly fine to 14 psi if you then set the mbc to like 24 psi then at the very least it would spool like normal to 14 psi and then get as high as 24 psi or till the exhaust pressure forces the wastegate all the way open.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:46 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Ok, say you dont put the vac line on the wastegate at all. It will stay closed until the exhaust backpressure pushing on the diaphragm is greater than the spring pressure then it will start to crack open. It will spool like a normal car with a boost controller up to this point. After that point it will spool like a car without a mbc that is getting wastegate cracking. Now if you connect it like normal then the car will spool like normal until the the exhaust pressure + the boost pressure (coming through the mbc) is high enough to overcome the spring pressure. If the requested boost (from the mbc) is higher than that cracking exhaust pressure I mentioned earlier then it wont spool as hard. Eventually you'll make enough gas pressure that no matter what you set the mbc to the wastegate will be all the way open and you wont be able to make more boost.

So right now if it spools perfectly fine to 14 psi if you then set the mbc to like 24 psi then at the very least it would spool like normal to 14 psi and then get as high as 24 psi or till the exhaust pressure forces the wastegate all the way open.
so you just described how an ewg operates. Did you google it or something? WTF does it have anything to do with what he's asking.

Just stop posting..



OP,


Can't you also shim the original spring? I know it has to "seat" but doubt it would go anywhere if it didn't. The possible downside is boost creeping to death if current setup requires full range of motion on the valve.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:56 AM   #32
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Ehhh... i could maybe look into shimming.

Stupid question: Shim goes under or on top of spring? I might be a little worried about seating, since i'm paranoid like that, but fueling would be more the issue than strength of motor if i DO run into creep issues.


To maybe hopefully illustrate what i'm talking about in terms of how the car responds... (and hopefully not to further confuse)

When i first hammer it in 2nd, you'll see the boost gauge hit 14psi pretty much immediately. You might be able to hear it, maybe not, but the car doesn't really "hit its stride" until maybe 1/4-1/2 a second after it's already achieved max pressure. It's not dependent on RPM, does it all the time. It'll kinda start moving as it spools up, but it just feels weird. Starts to move, hits full boost, wait for it.... SLAM. My Miata doesn't do this. (But of course, it's a baby dick motor with a baby dick turbo on the Miata.)

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Old 09-20-2012, 11:58 AM   #33
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IF it looks anything like a Tial on the inside, you'd put the shim on top not bottom
I'm pretty sure spring wouldn't go anywhere even if it shifted, since its pretty wide relative to the housing, and would still be seated on the bottom.
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:01 PM   #34
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IF it looks anything like a Tial on the inside, you'd put the shim on top not bottom
I'm pretty sure spring wouldn't go anywhere even if it shifted, since its pretty wide relative to the housing, and would still be seated on the bottom.
I'm honestly not sure if it even seats on the cap anyways... i'd have to look at it again. Thanks!
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:26 PM   #35
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Well this all ended up as a clusterfuck.

Got the new spring. Didn't put it in. Clutch is toasted.

Currently looking at a clutch rated for 505ftlbs. Because i probably need it.
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:29 PM   #36
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yuk. that's going to suck if you daily it
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:32 PM   #37
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yuk. that's going to suck if you daily it
Ehhhh.... maybe? If i go with the South Bend, i've driven that one and it's not a ton more pedal effort.

On the flip side, my clutch already never felt stock, but i have no idea what was in it. PO said it was stock, but i don't believe him.

But i've got the **** here to boot 25-30psi through this thing now, and there's no way i'm NOT doing that.
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:06 PM   #38
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what clutch?
I have ACT ZM2-XTG6 and it spent it's whole life in fast turbo cars.

Last edited by soviet; 10-03-2012 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:19 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Ehhhh.... maybe? If i go with the South Bend, i've driven that one and it's not a ton more pedal effort.

On the flip side, my clutch already never felt stock, but i have no idea what was in it. PO said it was stock, but i don't believe him.

But i've got the **** here to boot 25-30psi through this thing now, and there's no way i'm NOT doing that
.
Spoken like a boss.
I fully support this statement
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:28 PM   #40
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what clutch?
I have ACT ZM2-XTR6 and it spent it's whole life in fast turbo cars.
Looking at:
Souf Bend SS-DXD "Stage 3" and the SS-X "Stage 4."
ACT HDG6 (6 puck sprung, rated for 422ftlbs, might be a little low)
Spec Stage 3 or 3+
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