MBC's..Should I buy one? I have tons of money. Maybe an EBC.......Help!!!! - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-15-2007, 01:48 PM   #41
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 564
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
The MBC is much like using an AFPR and IGN interceptor for fuel and IGN control vs. a programmable ecu.
100% disagree. The MBC offers superior performance. You will never have a problem with an MBC on a proper turbo system. If you have a poorly implemented system then an EBC is a great bandaid for erratic performance.

An EBC is ******* wine and cheese- looks good, works ok, and you don't have to put down your chardonnay.
jwarriner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 01:50 PM   #42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Knoxville
Posts: 1,168
Total Cats: 0
Default

dood, you're 100% wrong. there's no way a ball and spring is as precise as a computer controlled solenoid.
Al Hounos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 01:53 PM   #43
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 564
Total Cats: 0
Default

Dood, you're 100% wrong. There's no way a computer controlled solenoid is as precise as something that the forces of physics will open instantly at a predetermined pressure. This is simple stuff here...
jwarriner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 01:56 PM   #44
Junior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lansdale, PA
Posts: 426
Total Cats: 0
Default



Quote:
Originally Posted by jwarriner View Post
An EBC is ******* wine and cheese- looks good, works ok, and you don't have to put down your chardonnay.
Stripes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 01:56 PM   #45
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Newbsauce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NoVA
Posts: 2,304
Total Cats: 2
Default

Reading this thread has made me retarded. The simple fact is this, if your really battling this decision (whoever the original poster is) buy or build a 15 dollar boost controller (MBC). Then, if you feel it justified, spend the money and get electronic later. Your out 15 bucks, or you can use the MBC to **** yourself because you wasted my reading time over a 15 dollar component.
Newbsauce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 02:04 PM   #46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Knoxville
Posts: 1,168
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwarriner View Post
Dood, you're 100% wrong. There's no way a computer controlled solenoid is as precise as something that the forces of physics will open instantly at a predetermined pressure. This is simple stuff here...
Yeah, those computers, damn them, always rounding off decimal points on the 1's and 0's and getting everything wrong. Good old ball and spring rattling around inside a tube, now that's precision.
Al Hounos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 02:06 PM   #47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 564
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Hounos View Post
Yeah, those computers, damn them, always rounding off decimal points on the 1's and 0's and getting everything wrong. Good old ball and spring rattling around inside a tube, now that's precision.
Ever applied 12v to a solenoid? Ever put compressed air through an MBC? Yeah, that's what I thought...
jwarriner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 02:11 PM   #48
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Newbsauce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NoVA
Posts: 2,304
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Hounos View Post
Yeah, those computers, damn them, always rounding off decimal points on the 1's and 0's and getting everything wrong. Good old ball and spring rattling around inside a tube, now that's precision.
Yes, the threat of hackers attacking your electronic boost controller really deters me from using one. MBC4eva!
Newbsauce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 02:16 PM   #49
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 564
Total Cats: 0
Default

Yeah, it's 1s and 0s and hackers that I am worried about... Jesus ******* Christ.

If you guys don't understand why a simple spring valve will give you better response over a solenoid, computer controlled or otherwise, then there's no point in arguing with you.
jwarriner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 02:17 PM   #50
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

my datalog:


See the ruler flat cyan line? No overshoot or creep or sag or spike?

I've already offered hustler the same model for cheap.

oh here's scott's datalog:


And you know I'm not the type to cheap out generally, but I *like* my $5.00 boost controller.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 02:21 PM   #51
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Knoxville
Posts: 1,168
Total Cats: 0
Default

shut up y8s, you don't know anything, you could use a MBC and have way better control, and you would be way less wine and cheese than all those stupid OEMs and pro race teams that exclusively use EBCs.

oh wait that is an mbc. well, that's a pretty damn good one. an exception proves the rule.

Last edited by Al Hounos; 05-15-2007 at 02:33 PM.
Al Hounos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 02:24 PM   #52
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,847
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

Y8s' MBC works good for $5...my $10 MBC design is far less superior....as seen above....

although I'm purchasing the EBC do-dads for MS right now....
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 02:44 PM   #53
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Knoxville
Posts: 1,168
Total Cats: 0
Default

my $25 EBC reliably has less than 2kpa (.3psi) deviation at full boost (14.5psi):
Attached Thumbnails
MBC's..Should I buy one?  I have tons of money.  Maybe an EBC.......Help!!!!-graph.jpg  
Al Hounos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 02:46 PM   #54
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,847
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwarriner View Post
Dood, you're 100% wrong. There's no way a computer controlled solenoid is as precise as something that the forces of physics will open instantly at a predetermined pressure. This is simple stuff here...

as much as I like my MBC, you're just wrong.

a MBC is a spring and ball....the spring will always open a little bit as boost increase untill the spring's preload is finally overcome and forced open....so what did that little amount of leaked boost do??? slow spool and possible incourage a boost spike. One thing you can do to limit this (if happening) is a pressure regulator post MBC that will not allow anymore than x boost pressure to the wasegate. Depeding on the condition of the your wastegate, increased boost pressure to the wasgate can be more than it can handle and surge or drop.

a EBC can hold the wastegate closed at the absolute last possible second. then the duty cycle can be tuned to control the solenoid far better than just "forces". what does this do for you?? increased spool, boost adjust on the fly, better accuracy through the entire revs.

both are set and forget...the first time I rocked a EBC on my miata I noticed the difference in spool-up right away....now back with a MBC the response time is a bit sluggish compared....


FWIW:
HTML Code:
Index Quantity Part Number Description Customer Reference Backorder Quantity Unit Price
USD Extended Price
USD 
1 1 IRLZ44NPBF-ND MOSFET N-CH 55V 47A TO-220AB IRLZ44NPBF-ND 0 2.02000 $2.02 
2 1 1N4002DICT-ND RECTIFIER GPP 100V 1A DO-41    0 0.26000 $0.26 
 Subtotal $2.28 
Handling $5.00 
Shipping unknown 
Estimated Sales Tax $0.36 
Total unknown 
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 03:00 PM   #55
Miotta FTW!
iTrader: (24)
 
Splitime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Posts: 4,293
Total Cats: 26
Default

I guess personal experience counts for nothing with this guy...

I've used both... on different setups and cars... and the EBC wins everytime.

For those that care... if you want cheap and easy... MBC... if you are willing to spend a hair more and want more ... EBC.

If you are running Megasquirt... EBC all the way. Last I checked... MBC can't do throttle dependent boost... or overboost protection... or quicker spool... or boost retard for traction control.... or.... you get the point....
Splitime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 03:05 PM   #56
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 464
Total Cats: 0
Default

But what about a plane trying to take off on a conveyor belt
PAT! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 03:05 PM   #57
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Hounos View Post
shut up y8s, you don't know anything, you could use a MBC and have way better control, and you would be way less wine and cheese than all those stupid OEMs and pro race teams that exclusively use EBCs.

oh wait that is an mbc. well, that's a pretty damn good one. an exception proves the rule.
haha

what's more, I have my external wastegate on the #4 runner only. what rule is that proving by being the exception?
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 03:19 PM   #58
Miotta FTW!
iTrader: (24)
 
Splitime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Posts: 4,293
Total Cats: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
haha

what's more, I have my external wastegate on the #4 runner only. what rule is that proving by being the exception?
Run more boost.... then see.
Splitime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 03:23 PM   #59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 564
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitime View Post
I guess personal experience counts for nothing with this guy...
Personal experience counts for everything, MY personal experience. The only EBCs I found to be worth a **** was the HKS EZ and the Greddy Profec B. The fancy ones were always junk and the Profec B had limitations as well, it couldn't make more than double the boost of the wastegate spring and modded it would still max out at 25psi.

I've played with an MBC with compressed air and never noticed what Braineak is talking about with the ball leaking. I have noticed that solenoids on EBCs will open before the desired boost is reached, this is what actually prevents spikes, when the onset of boost is slowed down. A Profec has a trim **** that will make the solenoid open harder or softer. Boost builds slower with a softer trim but spikes are less likely to occur. A properly sized wastegate for the boost you are running is the cure for spikes, not an EBC. Obviously working with what ebay and junkyards have to offer for turbos makes sizing the wastegate to our application impossible for the majority of us.

You guys can think what you want, and I understand what is accepted in one community as absolute truth is often different than another. Even experts in the field will tell other experts they are dead ******* wrong. Whatever.

Personally, I'd never run an EBC I didn't build myself, ever again.
jwarriner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2007, 11:40 PM   #60
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 93
Total Cats: 0
Default

question - couldn't you just get a 12lbs wastgate can? (Not being a smart *** - just asking)
miatamad is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need help - Stock Balancer and Fastforward overlay pulleys Frank_and_Beans Supercharger Discussion 13 09-12-2016 09:17 PM
WTB Bellhousing Bolts patsmx5 WTB 1 10-01-2015 10:43 AM
Any pnp megasquirt for 2001 Big_gumby WTB 0 09-30-2015 04:34 PM
3rd Time's a Charm...hopefully. zephyrusaurai Meet and Greet 2 09-28-2015 11:59 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:33 AM.