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Old 05-22-2016, 02:19 AM   #1
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Default Megasquirts is my DIY plan retarded?

Looking for some advice as I think and plan my turbo kit. I want to do it on a budget so here is my plan for my 1.8 my goal is 200WHP and reliability and ease of removal because I need to pass visual inspection and OBD2 but heck if I can do the same with 250WHP why would I want to leave out 50hp?
-Weld my own log manifold probably stainless definitely weld els.
-self built downpipe and exhaust
-T25 turbo or T3 rebuild it myself? Or go with a new non china turbo? or churbo? I need to do more research.
-megasquirt

this brings me to my question which squirts do I want? I like the idea of building one my self and saving a chunk of cash with $450 vs $1200 but is the DIY PNP kit worth it? Is there desirable features I would miss out on with the MS2 vs MS3? Is it hard to convert back from sequential injection to pass OBD2 testing?

I like the idea of a piggy back system so I dont have to switch ECU and wiring and turbo and crap like that to pass OBD and visual inspection but know you guys hate them,but I wonder how many of you have to pass OBD and visual emissions inspections.
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Old 05-22-2016, 02:49 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Farting View Post
Looking for some advice as I think and plan my turbo kit. I want to do it on a budget so here is my plan for my 1.8 my goal is 200WHP and reliability and ease of removal because I need to pass visual inspection and OBD2 but heck if I can do the same with 250WHP why would I want to leave out 50hp?
-Weld my own log manifold probably stainless definitely weld els.
-self built downpipe and exhaust
-T25 turbo or T3 rebuild it myself? Or go with a new non china turbo? or churbo? I need to do more research.
-megasquirt

this brings me to my question which squirts do I want? I like the idea of building one my self and saving a chunk of cash with $450 vs $1200 but is the DIY PNP kit worth it? Is there desirable features I would miss out on with the MS2 vs MS3? Is it hard to convert back from sequential injection to pass OBD2 testing?

I like the idea of a piggy back system so I dont have to switch ECU and wiring and turbo and crap like that to pass OBD and visual inspection but know you guys hate them,but I wonder how many of you have to pass OBD and visual emissions inspections.
Not retarded, but definitely illiterate and very dumb.
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Old 05-22-2016, 03:08 AM   #3
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There is a feature compare/contrast out there about the different megasquirt processors. I run the DIYPNP and it has more than enough features for me. It's enough for 250 hp for sure.
That's a pretty common path, just read up a lot here and if your skills are up to snuff you should do alright
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Old 05-22-2016, 03:17 AM   #4
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Not retarded, but definitely illiterate and very dumb.
illiterate and and very dumb? you take the time to reply but offer absolutely no help or suggestion or any idea of why it might be very dumb or illiterate or even a hint at what you are referring to. So using megasquirt is very dumb and so is building a manifold as well as a DIY turbo setup also all the turbos and parts I suggested are dumb too. It cant be illiterate since you were able to read it.

Who are you to make judgement? Either answer the questions or shut up.
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Old 05-22-2016, 05:37 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Farting View Post
Looking for some advice as I think and plan my turbo kit. I want to do it on a budget so here is my plan for my 1.8 my goal is 200WHP and reliability and ease of removal because I need to pass visual inspection and OBD2 but heck if I can do the same with 250WHP why would I want to leave out 50hp?
-Weld my own log manifold probably stainless definitely weld els.
-self built downpipe and exhaust
-T25 turbo or T3 rebuild it myself? Or go with a new non china turbo? or churbo? I need to do more research.
-megasquirt

this brings me to my question which squirts do I want? I like the idea of building one my self and saving a chunk of cash with $450 vs $1200 but is the DIY PNP kit worth it? Is there desirable features I would miss out on with the MS2 vs MS3? Is it hard to convert back from sequential injection to pass OBD2 testing?

I like the idea of a piggy back system so I dont have to switch ECU and wiring and turbo and crap like that to pass OBD and visual inspection but know you guys hate them,but I wonder how many of you have to pass OBD and visual emissions inspections.
T25 turbo. T3s leave a much more difficult path for future upgrades should you want them, and T25s are more plentiful and cheaper to build around. Go find an SR20 T25 or a GT2554/GT2560R if your budget allows. Avoid Chinese turbos. It's not worth the low-end power loss over a Garrett journal-bearing turbo.

MS3 is what you want. If you've never built one before, do a lot of research and get comfortable with a soldering iron. If that scares you, shell out the $1050 for an MS3 Basic. MS2 needs extra parts to run sequential injection, which is what your car came from the factory with, and all the new development will go into the MS3.

Our disdain for piggyback systems has nothing to do with OBDII. The fact that you have to pass your car through OBDII emissions doesn't change the fact that piggybacks are worse than standalones.

Finally, a friendly word of warning:

Quote:
Who are you to make judgement? Either answer the questions or shut up.
Lose this attitude ASAP, for your own benefit. Your questions ("What turbo should I go with for 200hp" and "Is MS2 better than MS3") are basic questions that would be easily answered with a little quality time using the search function (use Google, type "site:miataturbo.net" followed by your search terms). There are plenty of build threads and dyno sheets from 200hp cars that would give you an idea of which turbos work for that application. There are discussions on what the benefits of an MS3 are over an MS2, and I suggest you go find that discussion on your own, because it will go much further in depth than I ever could in a single post.

Because most basic questions have been answered, usually multiple times, asking them again simply clutters the forum. This forum is chock full of very intelligent people who do not take kindly to the thought of wasting their time reading the same questions over and over. They want to read new discussions and new ideas. You are expected to bring yourself up to speed on current discussions and educate yourself before asking specific questions that you weren't able to find the answers to. Very few members here will help you do that, because nobody helped them do it. The resources and past discussions are available to you if you are willing to put the time and effort in. If you aren't willing to educate yourself, then this community may not be for you.

"Answer the question or shut up" comes across as entitlement. If there's one quality this forum does not tolerate in any capacity, it's entitlement. No offense, just tough love.
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Old 05-22-2016, 10:54 AM   #6
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I think your post was fine to read, might just be that time of the month for Vlad. But yeah, easy on the attitude.

Personally I hate the MS2, at least the PNP. The hiccup when burning anything is really annoying. I don't think they're developing firmware for it either, and with issues with even the latest MS3 firmware, I would rather have the latest so any issues that crop up can be fixed.

Don't piggy back. It's my understanding we used to pass by swapping ECUs, wiring open the waste gate, and staying out of the throttle for 80-100 miles for the readiness tests. Now that method requires swapping injectors too, since no one runs the supra injectors, which the stock ECU could trim out. I think our current scheme is staying away from emissions compliant counties or staying N/A since it's better for track cars and easier to swap.

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Old 05-22-2016, 10:57 AM   #7
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Why not just build your own ms3?
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Old 05-22-2016, 12:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
I think your post was fine to read, might just be that time of the month for Vlad. But yeah, easy on the attitude..
Are you an active facebook member?
Or club roadster?

Anyway, Andrew nailed it.
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Old 05-22-2016, 03:17 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
T25 turbo. T3s leave a much more difficult path for future upgrades should you want them, and T25s are more plentiful and cheaper to build around. Go find an SR20 T25 or a GT2554/GT2560R if your budget allows. Avoid Chinese turbos. It's not worth the low-end power loss over a Garrett journal-bearing turbo.

MS3 is what you want. If you've never built one before, do a lot of research and get comfortable with a soldering iron. If that scares you, shell out the $1050 for an MS3 Basic. MS2 needs extra parts to run sequential injection, which is what your car came from the factory with, and all the new development will go into the MS3.

Our disdain for piggyback systems has nothing to do with OBDII. The fact that you have to pass your car through OBDII emissions doesn't change the fact that piggybacks are worse than standalones.

Finally, a friendly word of warning:



Lose this attitude ASAP, for your own benefit. Your questions ("What turbo should I go with for 200hp" and "Is MS2 better than MS3") are basic questions that would be easily answered with a little quality time using the search function (use Google, type "site:miataturbo.net" followed by your search terms). There are plenty of build threads and dyno sheets from 200hp cars that would give you an idea of which turbos work for that application. There are discussions on what the benefits of an MS3 are over an MS2, and I suggest you go find that discussion on your own, because it will go much further in depth than I ever could in a single post.

Because most basic questions have been answered, usually multiple times, asking them again simply clutters the forum. This forum is chock full of very intelligent people who do not take kindly to the thought of wasting their time reading the same questions over and over. They want to read new discussions and new ideas. You are expected to bring yourself up to speed on current discussions and educate yourself before asking specific questions that you weren't able to find the answers to. Very few members here will help you do that, because nobody helped them do it. The resources and past discussions are available to you if you are willing to put the time and effort in. If you aren't willing to educate yourself, then this community may not be for you.

"Answer the question or shut up" comes across as entitlement. If there's one quality this forum does not tolerate in any capacity, it's entitlement. No offense, just tough love.
I wasn't asking which turbo I should use I to have people tell me what to use. I know everyone wants the EFR or a Garret I would love to buy the most expensive EFR or the whole trackspeed kit but it was a rhetorical question for when I do some more research. It was my attempt at trying to provide information to help those who would answer so they didnt have to ask a lot of questions or guess what I was hoping to achieve.

The only thing I believe I am entitled to is some basic level of respect as we all should expect. not have my questions be misunderstood and then called names. How much more time does it take to suggest I search more rather than calling names?

And I do research a lot. Hence why I have this book I haven't dug deep into it but it has an entire section on why a piggyback would be a good idea. One quote from the book "Factory calibrations are hard to beat. Why mess with the entire calibration?"


also from the FAQ page on this very board
"The Bipes is a proven device in NA, turbo and supercharged Miatas. Aftermarket ECU and “piggyback” usually have this function built in."
"The third, and in my opinion the best, option is going with a piggyback or standalone ECU unit. These units give you full control over the entire spark map; based on load and rpm."
I dont like the idea of a piggyback if everyone says they sk I was talking out loud. I was confused. I ddin't ask any of the gods of miata turbo to come away from their duties to answer this I already knew they would say the piggyback is a terrible idea and I believe them.

If it clutters the forum with people asking the same questions over and over then maybe referring them to a FAQ that actually is consistent with what everyone says would be a good idea.
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Old 05-22-2016, 03:32 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by curly View Post
I think your post was fine to read, might just be that time of the month for Vlad. But yeah, easy on the attitude.

Personally I hate the MS2, at least the PNP. The hiccup when burning anything is really annoying. I don't think they're developing firmware for it either, and with issues with even the latest MS3 firmware, I would rather have the latest so any issues that crop up can be fixed.

Don't piggy back. It's my understanding we used to pass by swapping ECUs, wiring open the waste gate, and staying out of the throttle for 80-100 miles for the readiness tests. Now that method requires swapping injectors too, since no one runs the supra injectors, which the stock ECU could trim out. I think our current scheme is staying away from emissions compliant counties or staying N/A since it's better for track cars and easier to swap.
Thank you for your reply this is what I was hoping for a short concise answer. I didn't understand how people would run a MS3 and wire it in and then swap to the stock ecu to pass OBD2 testing. I have done searching about passing testing but there are not many helpful results.
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Old 05-22-2016, 03:40 PM   #11
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So you count buying an old as **** (2004) book but not reading it as research? Factory calibrations are useless if you have to replace injectors, remove air metering devices and other ****. They aren't even good calibrations to start with, especially on an old piece of **** na. Why you'd buy and then not read some shitty generic book over the good very specific info here confuses me. Do you want to make things harder on yourself?

Miataturbo has been around forever. It's your fault if you read a post or book from more than a decade ago about piggybacks and take it as current, good information. The only thing to consider building, today, is a MS3x. If you don't want to build, go spend 1K on a MSlabs or diyautotune premade megasquirt.

You need to build a MS3X, for about the same cost as a DIYPNP. When you go for inspection you will unplug the ms3 and reinstall the stock ecu. Why are you making this so hard for yourself?




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Old 05-22-2016, 07:30 PM   #12
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So you count buying an old as **** (2004) book but not reading it as research? Factory calibrations are useless if you have to replace injectors, remove air metering devices and other ****. They aren't even good calibrations to start with, especially on an old piece of **** na. Why you'd buy and then not read some shitty generic book over the good very specific info here confuses me. Do you want to make things harder on yourself?

Miataturbo has been around forever. It's your fault if you read a post or book from more than a decade ago about piggybacks and take it as current, good information. The only thing to consider building, today, is a MS3x. If you don't want to build, go spend 1K on a MSlabs or diyautotune premade megasquirt.

You need to build a MS3X, for about the same cost as a DIYPNP. When you go for inspection you will unplug the ms3 and reinstall the stock ecu. Why are you making this so hard for yourself?
Yeah sorry about not reading a 300 page book in 3 days. I will try not to offend you in the future because you seem like an emotionally stable person. What is the point of a FAQ page if it is outdated? Once again sorry about offending you. I would think all you people wouldn't be so emotional about this and rather help and be glad to when people ask questions. I don't know much about anything with this EFI and turbo conversion stuff so once again sorry for causing a emotional reaction with my newb questions that are below you.

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Old 05-22-2016, 08:10 PM   #13
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Bro, you said you research a lot, then said you hadn't actually read the book. The book is old and outdated. Stuff has changed soooo much in just the last 4 years IMO.

Read all of the stickies, read a few build threads. And I mean read them. Don't skim. You have 6 months minimum before you are ready to build any turbo system. This will also give you time to save up some cash, because whatever you think a turbo will cost....triple that. I just finished my build. Go start there and see what I went through.

Lose the raditude. It absolutely will not help. Don't even make one more post for a while. Once you get too deep into the negative prop territory, you won't get any help. None. Then you will only have mx5.net to rely on. At that point, your totally fucked.
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Old 05-22-2016, 10:01 PM   #14
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The FAQ has a giant warning that says it's outdated. It's there for historical sake. See the big red text.

There currently isn't a huge FAQ anymore. read threads and learn.
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Old 05-24-2016, 01:23 AM   #15
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A local guy passes canada OBD2 emissions testing by literally removing everything and reverting back to stock for a day every two years. He says he likes it because it allows him to inspect parts for wear and tear. Our testing system requires the car's OBD system to be in ready status before going for emissions.

it's a major PITA IMO.....
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Old 05-24-2016, 01:24 AM   #16
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As long as you don't have visual testing you can leave the turbo in and just swap injectors/add maf.
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Old 05-25-2016, 04:08 AM   #17
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As long as you don't have visual testing you can leave the turbo in and just swap injectors/add maf.
Unfortunately I do have to do a visual inspection but its really hit or miss whether they actually do it sometimes they don't even tailpipe test they just check the OBD2 so its wierd.
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Old 05-25-2016, 02:32 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by deezums View Post
So you count buying an old as **** (2004) book but not reading it as research? Factory calibrations are useless if you have to replace injectors, remove air metering devices and other ****. They aren't even good calibrations to start with, especially on an old piece of **** na. Why you'd buy and then not read some shitty generic book over the good very specific info here confuses me. Do you want to make things harder on yourself?

Miataturbo has been around forever. It's your fault if you read a post or book from more than a decade ago about piggybacks and take it as current, good information. The only thing to consider building, today, is a MS3x. If you don't want to build, go spend 1K on a MSlabs or diyautotune premade megasquirt.

You need to build a MS3X, for about the same cost as a DIYPNP. When you go for inspection you will unplug the ms3 and reinstall the stock ecu. Why are you making this so hard for yourself?
Be careful who you trust and what they say. There is a guy (Deezums) over in Topeka, KS who provided me with great information and suggestions for what to buy for my 2000 Miata turbo build. Now it seems he can't get the DIYPNP he "sold" me to work. He also has my compatible electronic parts along with a '95 engine of mine but refuses to answer the phone or respond to emails. All I want is my stuff back that is legally mine. So, as I say, read and learn, but watch out for questionable people lke Deezums.
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Old 05-25-2016, 02:37 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by mackey View Post
Be careful who you trust and what they say. There is a guy (Deezums) over in Topeka, KS who provided me with great information and suggestions for what to buy for my 2000 Miata turbo build. Now it seems he can't get the DIYPNP he "sold" me to work. He also has my compatible electronic parts along with a '95 engine of mine but refuses to answer the phone or respond to emails. All I want is my stuff back that is legally mine. So, as I say, read and learn, but watch out for questionable people lke Deezums.
wait

wut?
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Old 05-25-2016, 02:38 PM   #20
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DEEZUMS fixed it! It runs great now. Thanks.

Problem was that I thought all sprockets were identical. Now the Intake sprocket has the "bumps", but I left the exhaust alone since the cam position sensor only looks at the Intake sprocket.
So now it doesn't work? After he helped you to get it working?
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