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New NB downpipe offering from CX Racing

 
Old 04-26-2019, 01:26 PM
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Default New NB downpipe offering from CX Racing

I know CX Racing has had Miata turbo kit offerings for quite some time now, but while perusing their site today I noticed that they now have a NB downpipe with a 5 bolt flange instead of the V band. This would open up a lot of DIY options for better turbos at reasonable prices and make their intercooler offering a lot more attractive. Manifold, downpipe and intercooler kit will set you back about $1,200 + shipping. This is just a little bit more than the FM downpipe and manifold.

I know their quality is questionable, but I thought it was interesting enough to share.

https://www.cxracing.com/MF-DP-18-T2...T?search=miata

Sorry if this old news.
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Old 04-26-2019, 01:43 PM
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why would any one ever want to buy a cxracing china made junk when a quality company like Kraken exists, with bomb proof great flowing cast manifolds and proper 2.5" or 3" downpipes with a cast elbow ?!?

AND FOR THE SAME PRICE.

cxracing is seriously over priced for the China junk they produce.
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Old 04-26-2019, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by borka View Post
why would any one would ever want to buy a cxracing china made junk when a quality company like Kraken exists, with bomb proof great flowing cast manifolds and proper 2.5" or 3" downpipes with a cast elbow ?!?

AND FOR THE SAME PRICE.

cxracing is seriously over priced for the China junk they produce.
I think they may actually be having some of their products, such as manifolds, downpipes and intercooler piping being custom made for them. I don't have any real evidence to back this up, but those products don't seem to be available anywhere else.

You make a good point about Kraken. They are proven quality. I think the real value with the CX stuff, comes in when you combine the intercooler kit. That seems like a good value to me, and requires 0 fab work for the people with aren't capable, such as I.
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by borka View Post
why would any one ever want to buy a cxracing china made junk when a quality company like Kraken exists, with a copy of a bomb proof great flowing cast manifolds and proper 2.5" or 3" downpipes with a cast elbow ?!?
ftfy
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:08 PM
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The manifold is useless and by extension the downpipe is also useless.
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
ftfy
Whose manifold did Kraken copy?
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
ftfy
can you explain? Im not sure I see what you are getting at.
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by atotalpro View Post
I think they may actually be having some of their products, such as manifolds, downpipes and intercooler piping being custom made for them. I don't have any real evidence to back this up, but those products don't seem to be available anywhere else.

You make a good point about Kraken. They are proven quality. I think the real value with the CX stuff, comes in when you combine the intercooler kit. That seems like a good value to me, and requires 0 fab work for the people with aren't capable, such as I.
im not sure what "custom made" means to you...? cxracing designs the part, sends off the drawings to China and has the factory make the parts, stuff it in a container, and off it goes to Cali.
Result? overpriced junk. China steel is ****, welds are weak. manifold will crack, sooner rather than later.
This style manifold, is almost impossible to make so it wont crack, even top notch American welders, using quality steel and god like welding skills have trouble making these style manifolds not crack under track use.

You do know that an intercooler kit can work with almost any other turbo setup right?

im running a cxracing intercooler kit with my kraken hardware and efr 6258 turbo, just point the turbo downwards, and fiddle with the silicone elbows/tubing to make the piping line up with the turbo outlet location.

welding intercooler piping is one thing, but making top mount manifolds that do not crack? almost impossible. and 100% not in China by barefoot 6 year olds with a torch.
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by atotalpro View Post
I know CX Racing has had Miata turbo kit offerings for quite some time now, but while perusing their site today I noticed that they now have a NB downpipe with a 5 bolt flange instead of the V band. This would open up a lot of DIY options for better turbos at reasonable prices and make their intercooler offering a lot more attractive. Manifold, downpipe and intercooler kit will set you back about $1,200 + shipping. This is just a little bit more than the FM downpipe and manifold.

I know their quality is questionable, but I thought it was interesting enough to share.

https://www.cxracing.com/MF-DP-18-T2...T?search=miata

Sorry if this old news.
Wow, negative cats over this... Thanks. I'll keep anything I find interesting to myself from now on.
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:12 PM
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Eh, early EFR designs looked very similar to TSE's EFR setup is what i was getting at. But I haven't personally held them both in my hands and made measurements, so
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
ftfy
I dont want to start a debate about who copied who....

I own a kraken efr setup, and held the TSE manifold in my hands as well. and i can tell you that, yes, they are both cast manifolds with similar runner lenghts, but the angles are all different, turbo placement is different, and overall cast shape is totally different as well.

The TSE manifld cad drawing might have been used as an inspiration for the Kraken manifld, but to call it a "copy" is a stretch.
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by borka View Post
im not sure what "custom made" means to you...? cxracing designs the part, sends off the drawings to China and has the factory make the parts, stuff it in a container, and off it goes to Cali.
Result? overpriced junk. China steel is ****, welds are weak. manifold will crack, sooner rather than later.
This style manifold, is almost impossible to make so it wont crack, even top notch American welders, using quality steel and god like welding skills have trouble making these style manifolds not crack under track use.

You do know that an intercooler kit can work with almost any other turbo setup right?

im running a cxracing intercooler kit with my kraken hardware and efr 6258 turbo, just point the turbo downwards, and fiddle with the silicone elbows/tubing to make the piping line up with the turbo outlet location.

welding intercooler piping is one thing, but making top mount manifolds that do not crack? almost impossible. and 100% not in China by barefoot 6 year olds with a torch.
Custom made was probably the wrong term. I meant that I think they design and spec out those parts and then someone somewhere (yes, probably in China) builds them.

Yes, I am well aware that those intercooler kits can be used with other setups, thats why I have a Chinese cast manifold and a CX Racing intercooler kit sitting in my closet now, waiting to be installed.
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:37 PM
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If the CX Racing DP is meant to bolt to a CX Racing 2860/2871 turbo, then the 5-bolt pattern is NOT Garrett-standard. I had their 2871 knowckoff, and had a helluva time trying to source ANYTHING that would match that weird-*** 5-bolt pattern.

ijs
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by borka View Post
The TSE manifld cad drawing might have been used as an inspiration for the Kraken manifld, but to call it a "copy" is a stretch.
Not really. There are design elements in our manifold which are difficult to see in photos, and those were not adequately copied (flange angles). The basic design of our manifold was very specific to optimize placement of a very specific turbo into a Miata engine bay. Those dimensional optimizations are actually a detriment to total system flow (albeit slight). If we were trying to fit a standard T25 in the engine bay, our manifold would look completely different. Thus, there would be no reason for another company to utilize those same design elements if they were not optimizing for the same specific turbo as we were. And yet, Kraken's manifold uses those exact same design elements, despite not being designed around the same turbo. That is not coincidental.

So you can choose to believe that they designed a manifold from scratch which inexplicably hampers flow for no reason, or you can choose to believe that they saw a picture of my manifold and used substantial portions of its design to create theirs.

I have had multiple phone calls from other vendors in the industry asking if I licensed the design to them, if that's any indication of how others feel about it.
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Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rwyatt365 View Post
If the CX Racing DP is meant to bolt to a CX Racing 2860/2871 turbo, then the 5-bolt pattern is NOT Garrett-standard. I had their 2871 knowckoff, and had a helluva time trying to source ANYTHING that would match that weird-*** 5-bolt pattern.

ijs

Interesting.... what this turbo internally wastegated? I guess I thought a 5 bolt was a 5 bolt. This would make the CX Racing stuff far less interesting.
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Old 04-26-2019, 03:48 PM
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lol @ thinking the krusty manifold isn't a complete TSE rip.
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Old 04-26-2019, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by atotalpro View Post
Interesting.... what this turbo internally wastegated? I guess I thought a 5 bolt was a 5 bolt. This would make the CX Racing stuff far less interesting.
The one I had (T28 Turbo Turbocharger) was IWG. For what it was, it worked fine - it's just that damned 5-bolt flange that kicked my butt. CX Racing supplied a flange that fit the turbo, but the exhaust opening was only 2-inches in diameter. I had to get a 2.5 in V-Band adapter welded to it to fit a semi-decent DP. And it was so shallow that the flapper wouldn't open all the way up.
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Old 04-26-2019, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by rwyatt365 View Post
The one I had (T28 Turbo Turbocharger) was IWG. For what it was, it worked fine - it's just that damned 5-bolt flange that kicked my butt. CX Racing supplied a flange that fit the turbo, but the exhaust opening was only 2-inches in diameter. I had to get a 2.5 in V-Band adapter welded to it to fit a semi-decent DP. And it was so shallow that the flapper wouldn't open all the way up.
Well huh. It even says that it isn't a bolt on replacement for an SR20DET. I guess its pretty safe to assume that is the turbo those manifolds and downpipes are built for.
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Old 04-26-2019, 04:09 PM
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Kraken even uses the same manifold for both because why wouldn't you. It cuts down on setup costs, is efficient and smart. You would be an idiot to make a t25 no-efr compatible manifold in the year 2019.
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Old 04-27-2019, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
So you can choose to believe that they designed a manifold from scratch which inexplicably hampers flow for no reason, or you can choose to believe that they saw a picture of my manifold and used substantial portions of its design to create theirs.
I can still remember talking to Kraken (Michael) when he was designing his T25 manifold. Moving the turbo up and forwards in the bay makes a lot of sense w.r.t. to packaging. Starting off with the mocking up the same turbos (EFR + T25) and the same platform (Miata) and using the same manufacturing process (casting), I guess ending up with similar turbo placement is not such a strange thing. The great thing of a cast manifold is the ability to model the runners to suit the turbo placement. As most of the setups will find their way into street driven Miatas / MX-5s, I also prefered good turbo placement over outright flow.

Given the fact the trackspeed manifold was created first, I guess it served as an inspiration. No point in denying that. For me it goes too far to call it a copy. If you go by that logic you can call any cheap Android phone with a notch a copy of the iPhone X.
I have never seen Apple advertising with "We created this phone first, so therefore you must buy ours". If you have to resort to that argument to market your product, it usually means the competition is ahead of you.
If you want to legally protect design elements, you have to resort to patents.

Now in this case I think both manifolds are good and having choice / competition is good in any marketspace. There are plenty of reasons to choose the TSE over the Kraken manifold.
I love both TSE and Kraken for making great products for our car community.
If I see a vendor bashing another vendor for no founded reason, I stay away from that vendor. I will never buy a Motorsport Electronics product for that very reason.
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