New turbo Miata for the forum
 

Hey everyone, I just finished turbo'ing my car last Thursday and I thought I'd share some pictures/info. It's a 1990 1.6 with an AiResearch T3 (supposedly from a Mercedes 300D), DSM 450cc injectors, ETD Racing tubular manifold, Mitsubishi Starion intercooler, Megasquirt ECU tuned by my friend Gavin. The stock wastegate is set at 11psi, so that's what I'm running!

http://gallery.me.com/gavinwilliams/...G_0045/web.jpg

http://gallery.me.com/gavinwilliams/...G_0002/web.jpg

http://gallery.me.com/gavinwilliams/...G_0050/web.jpg

http://gallery.me.com/gavinwilliams/...G_0007/web.jpg

http://gallery.me.com/gavinwilliams/...G_0006/web.jpg

Currently the wastegate is just dumping into the engine bay... smells great when you hit full boost!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ata/turbo2.jpg

If you look closely at the bottom of the turbo you can read "I AM THE STIG" :)

Thats an awesome ingraving on the turbo.

Looks clean, I like the color

outgrave

mmmmmm. 210* intake temps FTL!


awesome wastegate outlet :rofl:

Actually, they're between 100-110 usually. The intake air temp sensor could be in the airstream more, if that's what you mean. What do you mean?

i mean sourcing intake air from the radiator isn't ideal.

Did you need to make relief cuts in bottom of the hood for the IC piping?
What size IC piping?
What radiator?
What is the huge nasty mess of wires on the passeger firewall?
Need pics of IC and how the inlet/outlets face.

I love the electrical tape for the boost gauge tube (very airtight!).
And you're gonna melt that tube running it across the top of the motor like that.

Nice job- but I gotta have some kind of explanation on the that wg port. You say you're running it that way? :confused:

You all fail
 

Better place for the intake than near the brake MC... By far.

He had a pro welder patch a hole that used to bridge the two exhaust outlet ports on the turbine housing. Yes he's running it like that ATM and it's awesome.

That's silicone tape, which bonds to its self. The tube is nylon and intended for it's application.

Yes, we have to re-wrap some wiring.

We just got it running and are not about to run a 24 hour race with it!

^ why the hell did you unbridge it? Do you want to melt everything in its vicinity?

So there's a dump pipe that bolts to the four bolt port in the photo? I've seen these merc t3s all over eBay (they're a deal too) but had no idea how that iwg worked. If a dump does bolt to that- it's got to be superior to the older design like I have- where the flapper dumps in the IWG/dp chamber and bounces right back at the turbine wheel.

needs a small elbow pointing up through a hole in the hood.

with a spark plug in it.

FLAMING BOOOOOST

Something like this but out of the fender.

http://picasaweb.google.com/slibus/P...28072991433810

not certain he can bolt a mustang cobra to the fender...

Originally, the plate that you see there with the four bolts was just a block off plate, and there was a passage (now welded) which dumped this exhaust just behind the turbine, as was mentioned. So, we welded the passage and drilled that whole in the plate, where I will eventually add a dump pipe.

I like the spark plug idea, would even be more Eco-friendly, although I don't think the cop would believe you.

So yes, these mercedes 42/48s are very cool. Even more impressive is how smoothly the exhaust enters the wastegate- better than any external I've seen. But you need to weld cast iron if you want a proper screamer pipe like this.

Gotta move that thing... there's tons of ideas on this site as to where the MC/Radiator are not your only options.

Another note.. you can put your breather right off the valve there... no sense in running it to the front.

We fail?!

Do you understand how a hairdryer works? Those things girls (maybe you) dry your hair with once exiting the shower....an element is heated using electricity, then a fan blows air over the element and thus hot air can be utilized to dry your hair with. Well, same concept with your radiator...you have both an intercooler and radiator heating as your heating element and the fans are blowing the hot air right where you are sourcing your air. Is the area by the master better? it's possible (but i didn't suggest it)...is your location? doubtful IMHO.

Your pro welder welds as good as I do....like a 5 year old learning how to draw with crayons.

Did you not think of possibly extending a tube next to your DP, or simply leaving leaving the outlet connected to the main DP? Why would you think +1400*F exhaust dumping onto heater hoses would be a better idea?

Edit: I think i understand that you welded the turbine housing so you can run a dump....am i correct?

You oil return drain is also iffy at best. I'll wait for your "burning oil, help" post.

I see an LC-1 over on the passenger side of the engine bay....where does the wbo2 sensor plug into the exhaust?

again, what is that random relay box on the firewall behind the IM?

Looks engraved to me?

Home depot plumbing couplers are about the worst Idea I've ever seen used as IC couplers, they are not intended to handle any pressure whatsoever.

Firstly, the location of the intake works fine. My radiator keeps things really damn cool and the fans have NEVER turned on, not even once. My intake temperatures (on a 90 degree day) are between 100-110.

You can't see the pro welder welds, unless you're using an x-ray filter on my image to look into my turbo. The exhaust was welded in a backyard using a welder with no gas by someone who just started welding this year.

The wastegate exhaust is going to be coming out of a dump pipe soon. The heat shields we installed are doing the job GREAT so far but they're still only temporary.

What exactly is wrong with my oil drain? I don't smell burning oil at any time.

The "random" relay box is a very useful relay board used for MegaSquirt to make hooking up sensors and everything else really easy. And the LC-1 is there because I couldn't get it programmed correctly so I have two wideband controllers in the car. The LC-1 isn't hooked up right now.

It was laser engraved at the machine shop I work at.

:rofl:

Huh?

--------
and to the OP.
So what was the problem with the way the factory internal waste gate worked?

the water in your radiator is around 180-200*F....air passing through there is only going to be heated.

Do you use the correct resistance scale for the GM sensor? What ohm did you use for the bias resistor? Considering I see 100-110*F temps on a 90* day with my filter exposed to direct airflow, I cannot assume your values are correct.



anyways, giving you a hard time cause i have nothing better to do.

your link was a picture of a cobra...im not sure how you he run a cobra mustang out his fender....

Was or Is?

Looks like a 5 bolt miata to me with a muffler sticking out the front bumper.

The piping is all two inch except for the last part with the BOV which is 2 1/4.

The radiator is a 53mm Koyo and its brilliant. The IC pipes go straight down into the intercooler. The inlet and outlet are on either side of the IC on top.

As Gavin said, its silicone tape and it works extremely well on preventing the plastic hose from blowing out.

Mustang? this is what I linked you too.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/slibus/SIvpFfQJ...jpg?imgmax=512

They've been working great as a temporary solution, I don't get why you guys expect everyone's cars to be perfect right off the bat. This car has been turbocharged for less than a week and I'm running off of a college student budget.

This pic makes no sense to me...so many questions I have...


to OP: speaking from experience buddy, if others made that mistake, you don't have to...kind of like re-inventing the wheel.

This is what will happen, that thing will swell on a boosted run and make a really cool loud sound, the sound of failure. Lucky you, you are running a MAP sensor and no MAF, so you will make it home.

There's a lot more of the car at the website it's linked from- pinksallout event. Looks like an SR20 swap, but no underhood pics.

Do you happen to have a friend running a disco potato on an MSM with no engine management?

Yessir. Thats my album.

It is an SR20 swap youre right, I ran up to him while he was lining up, shook his hand and told him to win one for all of us. I went to that guys pit area twice during the whole day and but he was not there so I couldnt talk to him. Snooped around his car, took some pics, and left. I wanted to open his hood, but didnt want to have to deal with shit if someone from another team saw me doing it.

Edit: Im a tool, i should left a note for him to join the forum.

Spend some time over at HomeMadeTurbo.com , this build is well designed compared to a BUNCH over there.

Yes! Questions! If more of you had framed these criticisms as questions, so many of you would have saved yourselves from looking really very foolish in the eyes of someone who, evidently, has far more experience than any of you.

So where do I start; oh yes, the couplers. Do you guys really think we planned on using mostly high quality silicone couplers and two Home Depot ones??? Or half T-bolt clamps and half worm clamps?? These are parts that I had lying around from the various other cars and projects which I (and John) work on regularly. I will certainly agree of all the parts on the car which WILL eventually brake (just about all of them), these would probably be the first by far. Proper couplers + clamps are soon to be ordered. However, there is no rush. I have seen those couplers last many many many miles (yes, swelling over and over and over under boost) with no problems. I have one right now on my 280zx turbo which has been there for almost 20k hard miles, two autocrosses, and a track day. I have had the same results on mine and friends cars in the past — yes, they tend to slip off easily, but I find once you get them on there well, they stay for good. I have certainly never seen one tare.

If John couldn't handle blowing a coupler, I would not have MegaSquirted his, and certainly not turbocharged it. He has no delusions about how often he will be opening his hood.


His filter is not in the best place, but you can see from the results posted that its completely adequate.

The IAT sensor is correct. It would surely peak higher than 110 if the element was better placed in the air stream. Another thing we will be addressing, but you see any Honda and many other cars with a plastic-enclosed IAT sensor which is MUCH worse, and they are fine. But we are gonna try to improve things.

The oil drain is fine. You have been informed.

I have to say I am very disappointed in the level of maturity we have been met with, being newcomers to the site. I think if many of you were to not be on the attack constantly and maybe asked some questions constructively, you could learn a lot.
Its not all about 'pwning' people, although I sure am doing a lot of that today.

Drive-by commentary from moderators is also really classy.
And my '5 year old crayon' quality welds are functioning completely without a single leak, thank you very much. Second thing I ever welded.

None of you would last 30 seconds on homemadeturbo.com with this attitude hahahahahahahaha. I urge you to check it out.

Just cause it works, doesn't mean its right. Also keep in mind, its only been running a week, who knows whats gonna happen in 500 miles.

Certainly driving around with an open wastegate under your hood is not very smart, at least admit that.

Sorry broseph, but we have a saying here, do it once and do it right. I dont know why you would want to do this only to have to go back and fix and replace stuff later, pita if you ask me.

We see people do a lot of stupid things with their cars on this forum, there is also an agreed upon and trusted way that things should work. Why would you want to reinvent the bicycle with this stuff.

I also believe doing anything to a car on a college student budget is asking for trouble.

Thats what we had on hand. Now that we know exactly how the charge piping is, we know exactly what to order. Turns out, its only a pair of couplers and some clamps. We didn't follow a guide, or model this off of a ""kit.""

SloS13 has over 1k posts on HMT, your drive by admin has a handful, as do I.

Don't assume, everyone gets just as much hassle over on HMT, as you did here.

After some of the "tech" you have brought to the forum recently, you better think twice about a statement like that. I know guys who have STi's and FD's and a bunch of cheaper shit, DIY turbo honda's and such, and none of us have rich parents or are starving ourselves.


Edit: Gavin "EMS tuner extraordinaire. " wtf is this shit? Thats just pure :jerkit:

Thats sort of good to hear, makes the attitude even more puzzling though.

Ya basically, just a joke. I am pretty nasty though.
edit - alright fine the extraordinaire thing is lame lol, I'ma change it.

Oh and BTW, there are plenty of you who sound pretty legit, including you reddroptop. Unfortunately you are being overshadowed.

Saml01- Nope, its not the best thing. I SAID WE ARE GOING TO MAKE A DUMP TUBE LONG AGO. I SAID WE ARE GOING TO REPLACE THE COUPLERS LONG AGO. WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO? Your all basically right, just need to chill out with the attempted pwnage.

i'm legit.

You post an incomplete project and don't expect to be called out on it? Where the fuck do you think you are posting? What exactly are you attempting to showcase here?

Your oil drain is stupid, simply because with a bit of effort it could have been more ideal. Are you sealing a leak on the DP flange with silicone?

Dazzled we are not, but you are getting all the flack because of your attitude. Ghetto turbo is accepted here (jbweld-a-cooler), DIY is good, cheap is good. Being a bitchy little twat is not.

We wanted to show you the way we decided to put our ""kit"" together. Thought thats what you guys are into.

So I am guessing (as I am left to guess) that your problem with our oil drain is that is has a 90 degree-ish bend in it? Unfortunately, it had to be this way because of the design of his manifold. However, I assure you that if you saw the tapered internal design of that fitting you would agree that it, too, is legit.

That sealant is "ultra copper." Which to my amazement is a direct replacement for an exhaust gasket in many situations! I didn't believe it at first either.

I'm here to exchange information, not 'dazzle' anybody.

Looks like a MS with a relay board stuck to it.

Alright douchebag, you asked for it.
The comment you quoted of me was towards Sams pic, not anything you said. I still think you are an idiot and have no questions I would want answered by you. As far as the attitude goes, this forum was just fine before you got here and will remain as is even after you are gone, which is coming up very shortly I assure you. We do not like little prima donnas that bitch about every comment that they didn't like. Quite frankly, if you don't like it, fuck off!

The build looks halfway decent, but a few things you are claiming are just plain retarded. Who dumps into their engine bay??? I have yet to see that.

Nobody is saying it doesn't work, and noone is telling you what to do, you want to melt shit, go ahead...but I assume that you came to this place to get advice and ideas and feedback, that's what you have been getting. If you cannot take criticism, I advise you to go hide under a rock.

See you've got it all wrong. We are into giving people a hard time, it's an immature and childish sport but fun. Exchanging information, not so much. :)

My issue with the drain is how it is clocked. From the pictures it doesn't look like there is any reason you couldn't have had it clocked straight down.

I don't suspect that ultra copper will last, better to have good surfaces and no gasket to fail. But I guess with the open dump any exhaust leak at the DP will be a minor thing.

Maybe you can be all tough guy once you turbo your car. Go sit in the corner with Hustler. Pray he doesn't touch you where you pee.

Ya, rereading things, your probably right. I just wish actual information that I could work off of and respond too was more often included in such commentary, or that people would at least have read my responses to criticisms before putting them forth AGAIN. But I suppose thats the nature of the beast (internet forums).

Its very frustrating, as I'm sure you understand. I probably just have to get used to it all over again (haven't been on any forums in about a year and a half haha).

You sound like one of those typical little ------s that gets their babydick kicked in frequently. Noone is Dazzled, we have seen it all, and yes, we are smarter than you, just accept defeat and we may let you stay.
The manifold is nice, the turbo is nice, I am a believer of the ultra copper, I am all about cheap (look at my groupbuys). We are not the problem, you are! Quit your bitching or beware of the banstick.
Exchange information...that's what we do everyday. Today, we are trying to get some information to you but your skull is a bit too thick to accept it.

Oooh ok. Now were getting somewhere ;)
I think its at about the same angle as the one in my ZX (OEM turbo) actually, but perhaps you have a point. Ill keep an eye on it. The center section was pretty well seized to the turbine housing though :bang:

1) Congradulation on handling everyone's initial abuse well... you'll do ok around here.

2) Tell you buddy Gavin to chill out a bit, he is going to piss folks off.

3) Many of the comments are meant to be constructive. We don't know how much previous experience you have with building your own turbo system so we assume you know nothing. Don't take this stuff as insults or putting your car down. Most of us will not admit it, but our DIY kits were equally ghetto for at least some period of time (you should see my downpipe that originally came off a prelude).

4) The oil burning comment is relating to the angle of your chra. The oil drain is purely gravity fed. You never want your CHRA to exceed 5 degrees from vertical (per Garrett) or you can reduce the life of your seals and bearings and burn oil easier. It's a simple fix, just loosen your housings and rotate it so the drain is straight down. It will take you 20 mins.

Welcome aboard.

E-Thugging is for fags, you know who you are. Ease up on the guy Zabac, you aren't helping any and frankly your e-thugging isn't entertaining at all.

goddamn dan, little sand in the vag today??

PS it's pretty weak to threaten that someone wont be around long when you dont have the authority to ban.

Good, ok, I'm a retarded little ------. Please dominate me more.

A pickle fork can be wedged between the port bosses on the chra and the housing to split them apart. I had to do that on mine when I rebuilt it.

5 degrees according to Garrett eh.. I have definitely seen more than that but its good to know!

Ya, John doesnt get quite as angry as I do :vash:

Edit- ^Pickle fork! this IS paying off!

You'll fit in nicely.

Hustler's been absent lately, and this place was getting a little soft...I am trying, I am trying...just not as good of an e-thug I suppose.


It's not hard to get help here...just ask for it.

That was my first post in this thread...but you had to get your panties twisted.

Yeah, end of month...I feel like going out to a bar and picking a fight

Some days, like today, that is a good thing!!!

Ok ok, I am sorry I came off a little temperamental, I am sure you are not half the ------ I think you are. Now I feel bad...come here wittle buddy :ughug:

I just need to get a few beers or need to get laid, preferably both.

Whoa, I can even relate to you people on a personal level.. Something us gearheads are too often missing :)

keep your fridge stocked and marry a 22 year old... you'll get all you can handle of both beer and sex.