Oil Supply to Turbo
Finally getting to the finishing stages of installing a 99 engine and turbo in my 91. Basically had the oil feed plumbed from the right side feed I've seen most often, when my son asked why didn't I use the oil feed at the left rear of the head. Good question I said. A lot closer to turbo, shorter lines etc.
My question is, is there any downside to this? ie, the feed from the head comes after a restricter in the block. Is there enough oil there to feed cams, lifters AND the turbo? I never really thought about it, but how much oil does a turbo really use? This install is a small Garrett with sleeve bearings. |
There are 2 or 3 threads just recently where we discussed this.
Search around. Here's one of them: https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...ey-plug-75112/ The conclusion is no one knows for sure, so attempt at your own risk. |
By the way, I now have all tubes and fittings and plan to do my pressure testing that I promised tomorrow. Pressure vs RPM curve on that head port with no outflow, and with turbo.
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I may use that plug as well...considering most turbos need some sort of restriction it may be an ideal solution.
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Originally Posted by DNMakinson
(Post 1080248)
By the way, I now have all tubes and fittings and plan to do my pressure testing that I promised tomorrow. Pressure vs RPM curve on that head port with no outflow, and with turbo.
That would be awesome. Thanks |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1080252)
YES PLEASE!!
That would be awesome. Thanks |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1080105)
There are 2 or 3 threads just recently where we discussed this.
Search around. Here's one of them: https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...ey-plug-75112/ The conclusion is no one knows for sure, so attempt at your own risk. Well, for now I guess I will stick with that port on the intake side. Like some, I was also concerned about the weight of stuff hanging off the tee - so I've got the pressure sensor mounted to the car on the end of a hose. |
Originally Posted by Team DNR
(Post 1080516)
I haven't actually seen the restrictor in the block of the 99+ 1.8 to see if they've done anything different with the solid lifter cars.
I cannot speak to the '01-'05, however I assume it's the same, since the VVT mechanism has its own dedicated feed. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 1080519)
I know that the restrictor in the '99-'00 block is the same as in the '90-'97 block.
I cannot speak to the '01-'05, however I assume it's the same, since the VVT mechanism has its own dedicated feed. I say we go for it. It's not my head. :rofl: |
Originally Posted by sharkythesharkdogg
(Post 1080620)
I say we go for it. It's not my head. :rofl: In the meantime, get well and I hope to see you at the shop in the morning. |
Originally Posted by DNMakinson
(Post 1080248)
By the way, I now have all tubes and fittings and plan to do my pressure testing that I promised tomorrow. Pressure vs RPM curve on that head port with no outflow, and with turbo.
any results? |
2 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1080797)
its past "tomorrow"
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1386555525 |
I posted the results and my comments in the thread where the promise was made:
https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...-supply-75631/ As expected, oil pressures are lower, and affected by flow. I am going to run head port for my TD04, and think that restricted flow to BB turbos would be OK as well. Other research indicates that many other engines also use restrictors going to the heads, and factory turbos on those cars use the head ports for supply. DNM |
I am using this plug and a -3 line and havent had any problems.
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Originally Posted by DNMakinson
(Post 1080879)
I posted the results and my comments in the thread where the promise was made:
https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...-supply-75631/ As expected, oil pressures are lower, and affected by flow. I am going to run head port for my TD04, and think that restricted flow to BB turbos would be OK as well. Other research indicates that many other engines also use restrictors going to the heads, and factory turbos on those cars use the head ports for supply. DNM A factory turbo car has an oil restrictor designed with turbos in mind. A non-factory turbo car did not however. What would be interest to see is what Mazda has done with the BP in turbo applications. I am pretty sure the oil feed for the mazdaspeed miata is from the block. Not sure about non US-market protege turbos that used the 1.8, the mazdaspeed protege, or any other application of the BP with a turbo from factory. It would be cool if we could info on the restrictor used in those application and where mazda pulled the oil from. In any case, I will take a look at your thread. |
the MSM indeed does source from the block.
but then the MSM has a lot of really stupid things done to it as afterthoughts, so I'm not entirely convinced that proves anything. |
Originally Posted by Track
(Post 1083877)
Not sure about non US-market protege turbos that used the 1.8, the mazdaspeed protege, or any other application of the BP with a turbo from factory.
The removal of this port from the Miata engine coincided with the discontinuation of the 6th gen Familia / 323 and, with it, the discontinuation of the last factory-turbocharged B engine of that era. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 1083883)
In the 323GTX (both the B6 and BP versions, and regardless of market), the turbo oil supply was from the block, using the same port (near the flywheel on the exhaust side) that was preset in the early Miata engines.
The removal of this port from the Miata engine coincided with the discontinuation of the 6th gen Familia / 323 and, with it, the discontinuation of the last factory-turbocharged B engine of that era. https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...-supply-75631/ post 17 and on. I know its like a limited production joint effort between aftermarket/mazda but mazda was still somewhat involved. It keeps tempting me |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 1083883)
In the 323GTX (both the B6 and BP versions, and regardless of market), the turbo oil supply was from the block, using the same port (near the flywheel on the exhaust side) that was preset in the early Miata engines.
The removal of this port from the Miata engine coincided with the discontinuation of the 6th gen Familia / 323 and, with it, the discontinuation of the last factory-turbocharged B engine of that era. It seems consistently Mazda has used the block port, not the head. Not saying that your engine will go boom if you diverge, but its probably the more "reliably safe" location to get oil for a turbo. It is also very possible the head port has enough tolerance to accommodate a turbo... *shrug* gotta try it out ;) |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1083886)
Joe can you comment on this:
https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...-supply-75631/ I don't have any empirical evidence to prove that taking oil from the head is a "bad" thing. All I can do is point out the fact that B engines run their cams directly in the head casting with no bearings, and that there's an oil restricter between the block and the head which I assume Mazda calibrated for the oiling demands of the head all by itself, with no turbo. Further, I read the fact that Mazda started drilling that hole in the block again on the MSM, after a 10 year hiatus, as evidence that they also felt that taking turbo oil from the block was potenially less risky / more reliable than taking it from the head. I'm sure this isn't a binary deal, like "if you take turbo oil from the head, your engine will immediately explode." My guess is that, like forced induction in general, it's just a matter of degrees. Like if you take away 20% of the oil from the head, you will reduce the useful life of the [head / cams / followers] by xx%. It only costs a few bucks extra in hose and fittings to source turbo oil from the block on a post-94 engine. And given that this is what both Mazda and the major US and Japan-based aftermarket suppliers (the ones who offer warranties on their kits) do, I will continue to recommend this practice. But I'm not going to waste my time arguing about it with people who have something to prove.
Originally Posted by Track
(Post 1083901)
Not saying that your engine will go boom if you diverge, but its probably the more "reliably safe" location to get oil for a turbo.
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