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Old 10-13-2006, 05:52 PM   #1
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Default Questions about best way to comliment turbo setup

I've met a guy who is offering to sell me an old Bell turbo kit - its got most of the necessary parts but its going to be quite cheap so I'm considering getting it and having it altered by Bell to run a newer T25 with their newer style Downpipe. The only thing I can't figure out is what would be the better route to go as far as fuel/timing control...

The kit originally came with a MSD ign retard, a FPR, and a fuel pump. The guy is keeping the MSD and pump for his new supercharger setup, so I would be getting the FPR. I talked with Corky at Bell, and he says it would be perfectly reliable to buy a Walbro 255 pump and run that FPR - I would just need a timing control device like a Bipes. That's option #1.

Then I got to thinking and considered that I COULD just sell the FPR, not buy a fuel pump or Bipes, and just get a Greddy E-manage w/ support tool / injector harness / ign harness - which seems to go for ~450 shipped...

Now I'm thinking I could sell the FPR for ~$100 and not buying a fuel pump would save me ~$100 and not buying a Bipes would save me ~$250... thats $450 - so what do you guys think? I'm only going to run 8psi with this setup, so do you guys think it would be better for me to run the Bell FPR + Walbro 255 + Bipes... OR just a Greddy E-manage w/ stock injectors and stock fuel pump???

Thanks a TON for any input/info!!!
-Ryan
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Old 10-13-2006, 06:16 PM   #2
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You think the same way I do it seems. Sure analog fuel can be cheaper up front, but in the long run if you'll be needing engine management for high power levels its cheaper to get it now rather than later (I know, holy run on sentence batman). You might want to look on ebay for a used EMU if you are comfortable buying it used. I got mine for $300 used on ebay and it looks brand new. Then I opted for a boomslang harness for ease of install. You could get the harnesses and the the work yourself for cheaper for sure. One thing that you might want to also consider if you go the emanage route is bigger injectors. I bought rx7 550cc injectors with square connectors on rx7forum for $100 shipped. They are getting rid of them left and right on there. Mine are square connectored but I got a kit on ebay with all the harnesses and even heatshrink tubing for like $10. All I need to do is solder it on, no problem, and im good to go. So I spent about $600 on engine management including injectors, but you could save money by doing the harness yourself and/or getting smaller injectors. Hope this helps.
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Old 10-13-2006, 06:22 PM   #3
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I'd keep the FPR, you're going to want to use it even with an EMB. I'd also ditch the 255 pump and grab a 190HP for about $80 and be done with it (for reasons throughly discussed here).

If you want the cheaper route, go Bipes, 190HP, and FPR.

If you want the other go EMB and FPR.

Reason? EMB can handle pretty much at best 330cc injectors. 50psi of fuel in 330cc injectors is only enough to handle 200BHP. Bump it to 80psi (max oem pump) and you can handle 250BHP.
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Old 10-13-2006, 06:33 PM   #4
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Before making a descision not to purchase a new pump check your OEM pump. At BEST 80psi is all you can expect. When I did the dead head test on mine I saw ~80psi. Under boost I saw a spike of 70psi and then it settled to 60psi. I'd make sure you are confident of that OEM pump before proceeding.

Personally I'd keep the AFPR and buy the Walbro 190HP. I think you need it no matter which way you go, it'll give you the most flexibility.
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:41 PM   #5
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When you say 50 psi and 330cc injectors is good for 200 whp, are you saying that b/c the car runs stock at 50 psi? I was under the impressions that our cars normally run closer to 35 psi or so?

So really the best thing to do would be to get an E-manage Blue, and 305/330 cc injectors and call it a day since that will be good for 200 whp at normal fuel pressure and I only want 170 or maybe 180 max... yeah?

-Ryan
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
When you say 50 psi and 330cc injectors is good for 200 whp, are you saying that b/c the car runs stock at 50 psi? I was under the impressions that our cars normally run closer to 35 psi or so?

So really the best thing to do would be to get an E-manage Blue, and 305/330 cc injectors and call it a day since that will be good for 200 whp at normal fuel pressure and I only want 170 or maybe 180 max... yeah?

-Ryan
Stock fuel pressure at 0 vac is ~49 psi. You need to decide what your own best route is, but you can get to 180 rwhp either way. Btw, if you're looking at the em blue, I strongly suggest you check out the emanage ultimate.

Last edited by Ben; 10-13-2006 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 10-13-2006, 08:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
When you say 50 psi and 330cc injectors is good for 200 whp, are you saying that b/c the car runs stock at 50 psi? I was under the impressions that our cars normally run closer to 35 psi or so?
yeah at ~20 Hg. it's at 36psi at ~0 Hg. It at 48-50psi. But with the emanage and higher fuel pressures you wouldn't even need to swap out the injectors. BrgRacer and Olderguy here both are running more than 200rwhp on 1.8 injectors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
So really the best thing to do would be to get an E-manage Blue, and 305/330 cc injectors and call it a day since that will be good for 200 whp at normal fuel pressure and I only want 170 or maybe 180 max... yeah?

-Ryan

Mach929 is running close to your power goals with an EMB, maybe you should look at his build. I was running that power level without an EMB. So it's really whether or not you want full control of your fuel and timing or some control.

Last edited by Braineack; 10-13-2006 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 10-13-2006, 09:49 PM   #8
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Water injection get in on the group buy and then you can run 200 whp on the stock fuel system. 170 bucks plus the fpr, and stock pump=200whp, 230-240 bhp not to bad and fairly cheap you can go em but the blue is not awhole lot better than a rx7 maf and bipes ok it is abit better than rx7 afm but still they both od the job. i still dont run a timming control on my setup. for 200whp you real shouldnt need one so long as the WI or IC is doing its job correctly, and you have enough fuel.
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Old 10-13-2006, 09:50 PM   #9
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the more you can cool down the the lower your bsfc gets and the less fuel it takes ot make power. remember that
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Old 10-13-2006, 09:53 PM   #10
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fwiw Ive done some reading and if you can find it the evo8 fuel pump is ~190lph and really quiet. I got one with my donor car and did a little reading about it.
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Old 10-13-2006, 09:55 PM   #11
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does it line up for our cars like the walboro? if so cool
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Old 10-14-2006, 03:00 PM   #12
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I'll take some pics of mine after the rain here lets up
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