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DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

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Old 10-26-2008, 10:28 PM   #1
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Hello, first off, let me apologize for the newb question. I'm not that familiar dealing with forced induction applications. Is some type of engine management system required for all turbo applications? Are there no cheap piggyback setups that work well for turbo applications? I'm looking on doing a very budget junkyard / ebay setup on a 1.6 and it seems, after reading for the last 2 hours or so that it might be best and cheapest to pickup a used greddy kit vs. trying to put one together. I do not have the ability to build my own manifold and downpipes, so it looks like I could put together a turbo / exhaust manifold / downpipe / intercooler for around $300. However, it looks like that's where things stop being cheap and start getting expensive. I have not yet gotten the ability to convert cc's to lbs as far as injectors go. I've got a full set of 19lb injectors, from another build, but I'm unsure if they would fit or even be the correct size.

Is the ebay stuff bad?? it looks like the 16g turbo from the talons (correct?) seem to be the ones that are favored with the cheap ebay turbo manifolds and downpipes. The intercoolers on ebay look acceptable, but only have 2" piping, seemed a little small to me. From what I've seen, like I stated earlier, I've seen some complete greddy kits available for around $650 or so?? which seems cheap enough, but again, like before, I'm not really sure what they're worth. I'm not looking for 300 hp (famous last words) mainly because I'm not interested in spending buckets of cash on the car. I'd like to keep it cheap, and have a little fun pretty much. Are these expectations in line with the stuff you guys see?? 200hp for $500?? I really like driving the miata, it's just quite a bit slower than I like..haha....

Thanks, and sorry again for all the newb questions....
-Matt
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Old 10-26-2008, 10:33 PM   #2
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Old 10-26-2008, 10:34 PM   #3
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Old 10-26-2008, 10:40 PM   #4
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That's a cool feature. Is it new? This is the first I noticed it. Where it shows the title of the page instead of the link url
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:00 PM   #5
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yes new feature. see the link back tab next to thread tool.
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:16 PM   #6
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Thanks for the heads up on the eBay thread, I hadn't seen it yet.....and dammit, I know I've done it to people before too...but I had being linked to the "search" function of a forum......Yes, I know it's there...thanks though...it keeps me from having to scroll back up the page!!!!!

EDIT: I still haven't seen any thread on engine management necessity..it seems most people are running MS stuff....just wondering if there is any way around this....I know on some of the mustangs you can run back to speed density systems and they run...but like I said...i've got a decent amount of ability, just no knowledge in forced induction....

EDIT Again: Nevermind the last edit!!!!

Last edited by matt-tastic; 10-26-2008 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt-tastic View Post
Thanks for the heads up on the eBay thread, I hadn't seen it yet.....and dammit, I know I've done it to people before too...but I had being linked to the "search" function of a forum......Yes, I know it's there...thanks though...it keeps me from having to scroll back up the page!!!!!

EDIT: I still haven't seen any thread on engine management necessity..it seems most people are running MS stuff....just wondering if there is any way around this....I know on some of the mustangs you can run back to speed density systems and they run...but like I said...i've got a decent amount of ability, just no knowledge in forced induction....
Try reading over the first link I posted. In short, yes, you don't have to get a different EMS. Read these too, specifically the second one.

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/f40/

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t21406/
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:30 PM   #8
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ps. from what i'm gaining...best bang for buck seems to pickup a complete used kit???
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Try reading over the first link I posted. In short, yes, you don't have to get a different EMS. Read these too, specifically the second one.

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/f40/

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t21406/
The second thread is pretty hilarious.....After reading for a few hours, that's what I was guessing was going to happen......I just had seen a few threads with ultra cheap builds and was hoping to be able to do the same.....still wondering if I can get it done....
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:39 PM   #10
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You could turbo your car for 250 bucks. It's been done. No doubt. But is that easy? No. You have to do your research. If you are lazy and have money and don't care about DIY, just buy a kit. If your want to go cheap and good bang for the buck you have to do your own research and figure out what's right for your power goals and then decide what to do to get there. If you'll read all the links I posted 3 times this will becomes a bit more clear.

So in short stop asking questions and do some research. You got a lot to learn. The answer is yes, you can do it, but to do so you'll have to do a lot of the leg work. Nobody here will spoon feed you on what to do. Beg for answers and you'll be ridiculed. Cry about it and you'll get ridiculed more. Bitch about it and you'll get banned. You could start by making a thread in the meet and greet section (which I already linked) and introduce your self and post pics of your car, plans, etc.
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
You could turbo your car for 250 bucks.
What I was looking for...
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:50 AM   #12
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^this will be epic
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:53 AM   #13
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Sure, you can turbo your car for 250 bucks, but whether you'll actually want to drive it afterward is another matter.
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Try reading over the first link I posted. In short, yes, you don't have to get a different EMS. Read these too, specifically the second one.

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/f40/

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t21406/
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^this will be epic
And who are you again?? And just why do you think it would be epic??
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Old 10-27-2008, 02:07 AM   #15
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Take a step back, Paco. You are the n00b, no attitude yet.

If I had to guess, he thinks it's epic because so many turbo newbies try to do everything on the cheap, and typically either end up with a pile of crap, a blown engine, or a car with all sorts of problems which they're constantly working on just to keep it running. Take your time and get it right the first time, and you'll be a much happier man.
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Old 10-27-2008, 02:12 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt-tastic View Post
What I was looking for...
No. Don't think anyone can do that. I probably shouldn't have even said that as a newb will take it out of context. There's one guy that did it that cheap. His name is Lazzer, and he's the king of cheap. He turbo'd his car for 250 bucks. He could probably turbo his car for a profit if he tried. But it was rather ghetto. But it worked for him. Most here will tell you 1K is a cheap *** setup and to get a decent setup for 1K requires A LOT of learning on your behalf. And when I say learning, I don't mean asking lots of questions.
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Old 10-27-2008, 02:13 AM   #17
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And holy **** you got to stop ending every thought with "...".
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Old 10-27-2008, 02:42 AM   #18
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sorry, the.....is just habit. Ya, after a little more looking I'm thinking this is going to be around a 500-700 project if I can pickup a decent amount of used parts. I've already got quite a bit of this stuff. So far from what I'm seeing, I think I can build a fun car with a cheap ebay manifold and downpipe, salvage yard turbo, ebay intercooler, sequential bov, ebay or salvage injectors, and a decent fuel pressure regulator. The only thing that looks like it might hurt is a wideband o2 if I can't find one used. I think the DIY is better the second time.

And I was kinda calling him out, I knew exactly why he thought this would be "epic". F&ck that pisses me off, I can't b#tch too much though, I usually do it to people on other forums as well. Well, honestly, I don't think I do, I usually just sit back and watch them f*ck up. Maybe that's worse??? I guess it's just as bad to watch someone eat **** on their brand new Gixxer 1000 because they thought they could ride wheelies / drag knee / insert death defying motorcycle stunt here after they saw someone else do it.

And who knows, I might be able to turbo this and make something. You'd have to know what I had in the car though. I have been known to make money when building race bikes (which I've been told is "impossible").
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Old 10-27-2008, 11:47 AM   #19
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Matt, basics of forced induction... when you add more air (boost), you need more fuel. 20 different ways to get more fuel. The simplest way in a Miata is with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator that clamps off the fuel return line to the fuel tank and build fuel pressure in the fuel rail. The stock ECU still does it's normal thing, except you're getting more fuel per squirt of the injector because there's more fuel pressure. You also need to help the car out with it's ignition. Forced induction means higher intake temperatures, which means increased knock threshold. Higher octane fuel compensates some, and RUNNING RICH helps because the additional fuel added cools the intake air as it's injected into the airstream. But you must also AT A MINIMUM lower your base timing to 6*-7* BTDC if you are not using some sort of electronic timing module like a Bipes.

Here's a thread that I often link to NOOBs that details my first bandaid setup... a long read, but will probably clear up a lot of gaps in your knowledge:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t4455/

You also need to put something in your signature... like what YEAR Miata you have and any current modifications. It would also be smart to check the current health of your engine... like a compression/leakdown test. What has the car's maintenance schedule been like? Do you run decent fluids? Do you have something else to drive while the Miata is down? It will go down, trust me. Anything you think will just take an afternoon will take 3-4 days.
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Old 10-27-2008, 12:30 PM   #20
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Thanks Sam. As far as the current Health of the motor in this vehicle, I'm honestly not sure. It seems to run OK, runs strong, works well. My only complaint is a high idle. I've have not done any other diagnostics on the vehicle to determine good health. Yes, I've got a few more cars to drive, I'm not too worried about popping this car and fully understand this will take a few days to complete.
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