Smallest Turbines? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-29-2006, 11:00 AM   #1
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5
Total Cats: 0
Default Smallest Turbines?

Hello Everyone, I am new here. I own a 99 base and Im thinking of going turbo... but not just turbo... SEQUENTIAL Turbo... so I was wondering if anyone has heard or seen any miata going this route? I checked on someone who had his white 92 hooked up with Gt15 but those were not sequential anyways let me know what sup... also does anyonw know where I can find the samllest turbo for my set up?
reliabilitygator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2006, 11:30 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,379
Total Cats: 1
Default

The Chevy Sprint Turbo was about the smallest commonly available turbo I have seen, its a bad *** little turbo to boot.

Mark
Markp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2006, 01:00 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 737
Total Cats: 0
Default

Yeah, the guy that used the two GT15's had good success with them. He said they spooled up as fast as one GT28R .64 a/r. I normally am not a fan of using a twin turbo setup on an inline 4 cylinder, but his GT15 setup really is ******* sweet.
F20turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2006, 03:30 PM   #4
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
samnavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: VIRGINIA BEACH, VA
Posts: 6,020
Total Cats: 175
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reliabilitygator View Post
Hello Everyone, I am new here. I own a 99 base and Im thinking of going turbo... but not just turbo... SEQUENTIAL Turbo... so I was wondering if anyone has heard or seen any miata going this route? I checked on someone who had his white 92 hooked up with Gt15 but those were not sequential anyways let me know what sup... also does anyonw know where I can find the samllest turbo for my set up?
I totally dig the idea, I don't think it's been done before. But I have to ask, why? What research have you done that leads you to want to go that way? I'm truly curious.

Perhaps two of the K03 turbos off a VW/Audi 1.8... should start to spool just off idle and be at full whoosh by about 2500. Two of those running 10psi each would be fun.
samnavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2006, 04:21 PM   #5
Senior Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sammamish, Washington
Posts: 1,396
Total Cats: 0
Default

Good call. The K03 is as fast sooling as you can get while still moving some air. Hell.....People have even made 250 whp at 300 wtq on just one although I wouldn't recommend it. I am going to use one of those when I turbo our Xb next year. Should be a great match to the 1.5 liter.
Kelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2006, 06:58 PM   #6
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5
Total Cats: 0
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
I totally dig the idea, I don't think it's been done before. But I have to ask, why? What research have you done that leads you to want to go that way? I'm truly curious.

Perhaps two of the K03 turbos off a VW/Audi 1.8... should start to spool just off idle and be at full whoosh by about 2500. Two of those running 10psi each would be fun.
I've always loved the idea of two turbos with no lag... One small and one big. The way a sequential turbine system works in simple words is that one spool sup at lower rpms while the other spools up at the higher ones, therefore eliminating the lag. I know Iknow a T3 or Gt25 probably have almost no lag due to being ball bearing instead of journal bearning turbos but I want to be different. I know I could get a supercharger but then... you dont get that signature sound... I think it be cool to go to my car meets and be like yeah... I have two turbos... and one is bigger than the other... LOL!
reliabilitygator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2006, 07:43 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 865
Total Cats: 0
Default

GO to garretts website i think they have gt12 dont remember tho.
turbopezz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2006, 07:56 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 865
Total Cats: 0
Default

Attached Images
File Type: bmp turbo.bmp (44.3 KB, 148 views)
File Type: bmp turbp.bmp (44.3 KB, 145 views)
turbopezz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2006, 08:07 PM   #9
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbopezz View Post
I was lookin a them earlier today... but wtf... does only up to 130 means? if i use it in a sequentila manner i mean the turbo will still keep spooling after liek 4k or so... I want around 180-200whp so maybe I need a GT1544 and a Gt20
reliabilitygator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2006, 11:18 PM   #10
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
samnavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: VIRGINIA BEACH, VA
Posts: 6,020
Total Cats: 175
Default

Damn, those are small... probably for a motorcycle.

Gator, I like your style. I look forward to watching this thing happen. Are you going to fab all the stuff yourself? Do you have a budget? What about a power goal? Even 2xK03's would probably push enough air for the 300HP club. If you're thinking one that small, and one even bigger, I hope you're smart on engine management. Also, nothing about the stock motor will handle that power for long... like minutes. If the idea is just to be unique, but leave the power at respectable levels, a couple of those motorcycle turbos would be the trick.

They're small enough that, they'd fit, the Manifold and DP's would be easier to fit, and you could probably get away with just basic engine management... a Link would be the most you'd need.
samnavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2006, 01:24 AM   #11
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5
Total Cats: 0
Default

Yeah Im not going for crazy 300HP... I want 220 FLYWHEEL HP at MOST! I have about 2k saved... I know is not much but probably enough to buy either both turbos or the engine management. I will probably used pre fab stuff from the guy with the twin set up... https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3721
I would proabably use the t12 and the t1544, I have to call Garrett and ask about their flywheel estimates and how they would work in a sequential turbo matter.
reliabilitygator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2006, 02:42 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NAS Oceana/VA
Posts: 759
Total Cats: 0
Default

Ahhhhh, there so cute.
getsidewaysd1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2006, 10:11 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,450
Total Cats: -1
Default

So you've got two turbos each capable of flowing ~130hp worth of air, for a total of 260hp, or almost as much as one GT2554R.

Each one will be spun by 900cc of exhaust gases vs. 1800cc pointed at a single turbine. So, they might spool marginally faster than a single, T25-sized turbo, but not by much would be my guess.
bripab007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2006, 10:20 AM   #14
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,895
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

For 180rwhp and looking for something with instant spool I'd just look into a GT2554. You're looking at a lot of work for an easy power goal.

Look at the comparison of the GT2554, my T3 S60, and a Greddy turbo at 8-9psi:



both the gt2554 and t3 had boost control problems, but you get the idea.
Braineack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2006, 02:03 PM   #15
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 16
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
Perhaps two of the K03 turbos off a VW/Audi 1.8... should start to spool just off idle and be at full whoosh by about 2500. Two of those running 10psi each would be fun.
I've been saying this for years... yet noone at miata.net would take me seriously . Actually, I take that back... markp said it would probably work, iirc. However hopefully I'll have two of them tommorow, then the fun begins.

Twin turbos on a 180k mile engine? Should be a blast.


The major reason for the k03 for me is that my 1.8T VW takes them also, that way I don't have to have a pile of different turbos laying around for when I blow them up. I can buy one spare, rebuild it and its good for both cars.
JonC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2006, 02:22 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,450
Total Cats: -1
Default

Well, one K03 turbo might spool off idle (or thereabouts...actually, probably wouldn't start spoolling appreciably until ~2000 RPM, considering the K03 on my Jetta starts spooling ~1400 RPM, has 2000cc worth of air and 10.3:1 compression spinning it), but certainly not two of them.

I'm pretty sure one K03 (at least those in the current-gen VWs/Audis/Seats/etc.) flow enough air for ~220whp, so having two of them is probably way overkill and won't spool that quickly. If you're serious about twin-turbo'ing the Miata, you'd be best to stick with a smaller turbo.
bripab007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2006, 02:36 PM   #17
Elite Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 4,921
Total Cats: 0
Default

The FD RX7 tried this type of setup and it proved to be problematic at best. There is a reason people switched to a single turbo.

But don't let that stop you, it would be a cool setup indeed.
jayc72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2006, 02:44 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,450
Total Cats: -1
Default

Well, the FD RX-7 used a sequential setup: one small turbo and one large turbo. The new BMW 335i uses twin parallel turbos that're the same size...300hp/300lb-ft...10.5:1 static compression...peak torque by 1400 RPM....max boost of 8.5psi. I guess that means that each turbo is only being asked to produce ~150hp of airflow @ 4.25psi
bripab007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2006, 02:48 PM   #19
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 16
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bripab007 View Post
I'm pretty sure one K03 (at least those in the current-gen VWs/Audis/Seats/etc.) flow enough air for ~220whp, so having two of them is probably way overkill and won't spool that quickly. If you're serious about twin-turbo'ing the Miata, you'd be best to stick with a smaller turbo.
The k03 falls flat on its face around 200hp (~12psi in a 1.8l Jetta/Audi). In the grand scheme of things it is a small turbo. Its more just an exercise in fun for me, as my Miata is no-longer my daily driver and I've wanted to do this for years.... just never really had the time to get around to it.

So maybe it doesnt spool til 2600 or so, ok. There are plenty of Miatas running around that are just thinking of coming out of vaccuum at 2600rpm. If I wanted instant boost I'd get a Coldside PD blower.... Instead I want something that is neat and different (I'd be what, number three?) and that has turbo whine like no other. Which K03's whine pretty loud... especially with only an aircleaner on them.

How will it spool? IIRC the compressor maps for a stock k03 show two of them coming into boost around 2300-2500rpm. I'll have to check when I get home, but it wasnt any number that was absurd like some of the really large turbo miatas that don't come into boost til around 4000rpm.

How will it actually spool? Noone has done it yet, so that is yet to be seen.

I was always told if you are below 3krpm in a Miata except when stopping you are driving it wrong

And I'm talking a parallel setup, not sequential.
JonC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2006, 02:49 PM   #20
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,900
Total Cats: 0
Default

just make sure you do lots of research and math and match your small and larger turbos properly... it would suck if your little turbo ran out of breath before the big one was ready to take over the show. You might also look into the sequential system used on the BMW 535D, it's a selective system that doesn't pass all of the air flow in the top end through the small turbo (read restriction). Impressive setup and has a seemless power band... most fun diesel I've ever played with.
Arkmage is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
MT detectives, help me ID my old POS turbo AlwaysBroken DIY Turbo Discussion 3 09-21-2015 02:44 AM
1991 Turbo Miata partout tottestad Miata parts for sale/trade 18 09-14-2015 08:52 PM
MSM Exhaust Manifold Pressure Test slmhofy DIY Turbo Discussion 11 09-09-2015 12:46 AM
BEGI kit ? Mymiataflys General Miata Chat 6 02-19-2007 11:26 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:15 PM.