So I've read the DIY faq, now a couple of questions... - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 12-25-2009, 09:28 PM   #1
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Default So I've read the DIY faq, now a couple of questions...

-Is a wideband o2 necessary? It says to get one but can I run without one until I get the money together?
-Do I need an o2 clamp if I'm running an MSPNP? I'm not really understanding what it's saying, what is a closed loop? And why does it typically occur between 3,500-4,000rpms, or whatever it was?

Yes, I'm a noob, but at least I want to learn, and attempted to decipher the guide
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Old 12-25-2009, 09:40 PM   #2
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1. Yes, you need a wideband to tune. Maybe you can drive around a little before you get one. Generally, it's not a great idea, but if your car is very stock then it should run ok on the basemap for a stock car. By ok, I mean it probably will run rich and get crappy mileage, but it should run. Running rich all the time isn't great for the motor either, but a little while won't hurt it. Just take it easy, change the oil early, and knock on lift.

2. No you won't need to band-aid the standalone.

These types of questions are answered in the MSPNP FAQ.
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Old 12-25-2009, 09:41 PM   #3
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If you plan on tuning your MSPNP by yourself then yes, a wideband O2 sensor is definitely necessary. If you are going to have someone tune it on a load-bearing dyno with an O2 sensor then you probably can get away without one. There's no good way to tune your MS without one, and they are very nice to have so I recommend fitting it into your budget however you can.

If you have an MS then you DO NOT need an O2 clamp. The O2 clamp is designed for band-aid systems (adjustable fuel pressure regulator, e-manage, s-afc) that still use the stock computer for base fueling. The lean "tip-in" condition that the O2 clamp is designed to fix is not an issue if you can completely tune fuel and timing, like the MS can.

Good luck and thanks for reading the DIY faq before posting your NOOB questions.

EDIT * Doh, Ben beat me to it.
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Old 12-25-2009, 11:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rider384 View Post
what is a closed loop?
Closed loop is when the motor makes adjustments based on the computer data and sends the results back to the computer, and keeps doing that in a cycle or a "closed" loop.

Open look is when the motor does whatever the computer says, no matter what, and doesn't question it or provide any feedback.
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Old 12-26-2009, 01:17 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rider384 View Post
-Is a wideband o2 necessary? It says to get one but can I run without one until I get the money together?
Actually, a wideband isn't really needed if you have the MSPNP.

As long as you have a stock engine, and you're preloading a stock engine tune.

For any other situation, yes.
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Old 12-26-2009, 03:05 AM   #6
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Just get one now, before you are tempted to run without one. You can get a new LC-1 w/meter for $190 shipped on eBay.
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Old 12-26-2009, 04:32 AM   #7
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Just get one now, before you are tempted to run without one. You can get a new LC-1 w/meter for $190 shipped on eBay.
Lol this is what my friend tells me, but I'm usually too stupid to listen... At least he talked me out of a China mani and charger.

Stupid question, but where do these install? Do I replace the old o2 sensor with this one, but then what?

Please excuse my really stupid questions, I have a feeling I could do it if I was given the stuff and told to install, but I want to make sure I have the right idea before I find myself with a tangled mess of wires and a non-running car

EDIT: Nevermind, searched
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Old 12-26-2009, 04:35 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rider384 View Post
Lol this is what my friend tells me, but I'm usually too stupid to listen... At least he talked me out of a China mani and charger.

Stupid question, but where do these install? Do I replace the old o2 sensor with this one, but then what?

Please excuse my really stupid questions, I have a feeling I could do it if I was given the stuff and told to install, but I want to make sure I have the right idea before I find myself with a tangled mess of wires and a non-running car

EDIT: Nevermind, searched
You have to read the LC-1's manual. My old O2 isn't utilize at all. Someone here made this pic and it helped a lot.

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Old 12-26-2009, 05:16 AM   #9
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If you run turbocharged without a wideband, and you damage your motor in any way, don't expect a single lick of sympathy from anyone here. It's $200, it's absolutely required, and if you try to tune a car without one you're an utter idiot.

edit: Sorry to be so harsh, but it's not something to be taken lightly. "Oh I'll just make it a couple of weeks until I have the money for one" is a great way to guarantee yourself the need for a bus pass.

Last edited by Savington; 12-26-2009 at 06:01 AM.
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Old 12-26-2009, 05:36 AM   #10
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Its great that you're attempting to learn, but I suggest you pick up a copy of maximum boost and read that first, then the many other FAQ threads in here, and other places about basic components of turbocharging and engine operation before asking any more questions. You've got LOOOOOOOOOOOOOTS of reading to do man, and seeing where you are starting if you ask a question for every single thing this thread will be 100000000000000 pages long....

Good luck, turbo is fun
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Old 12-30-2009, 02:23 AM   #11
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if you're not tuning yourself, you won't need one. whenever it gets tuned, one will need to be installed for the tune.

i've considered taking mine out and boxing it just to keep it in better shape after i get tuned. only problem then is if something happens while driving i won't be able to see any symptoms in my AFR readings.

edit: and like savington said, 200 bucks added to the cost of a quality kit is not really a large investment at all.
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Old 12-30-2009, 03:41 AM   #12
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I appreciate the help guys. ****, guess I'll have to weasel up some 200 extra monies...

I'm picturing what my car would turn out as if I didn't have the help of this forum... I can picture it on M.net: Hai guise my engine blew when I hit boost on my stock ecu, whai??
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Old 12-30-2009, 04:20 AM   #13
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No LC1 No Boost No ECU for 2 months. It was dumb. Lucky no damage.
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Old 01-02-2010, 09:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rider384 View Post
At least he talked me out of a China mani and charger.
Nothing wrong with chinachargers. I have the ilovetaco ebay manifold and chinese turbo.
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Old 01-02-2010, 09:46 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by johnmatt View Post
Nothing wrong with chinachargers. I have the ilovetaco ebay manifold and chinese turbo.
Lol since then, I've decided to go with a Chinacharger. Ever since I read that they're built within specs of Garrett turbos and I read some I decided that they were alright.
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