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Old 07-25-2010, 11:08 PM   #1
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Default Some MSM Turbo questions

1) Does anyone have pics of the MSM exhaust manifold?

2) Are the hardlines (oil/water) that come with the MSM worth a damn?

3) Does anyone have any pics of the MSM water inlet pipe

I plan on using an MSM exhaust manifold and pipes w/ GT2554R, just a clean street setup with low expectations for power and overall focus being response & clean engine bay/installation.
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Old 07-26-2010, 12:31 AM   #2
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msm manifold will only work with the IHI turbo that came on the msm, or possibly a turbo from an old turbo thunderbird.
Oil and coolant hard lines are fed from the back of the block and would probably kink if you tried to bend them to make them work for any turbo other then the IHI.
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Old 07-26-2010, 12:39 AM   #3
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Old 07-26-2010, 12:52 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aricjm15 View Post
msm manifold will only work with the IHI turbo that came on the msm, or possibly a turbo from an old turbo thunderbird.
Oil and coolant hard lines are fed from the back of the block and would probably kink if you tried to bend them to make them work for any turbo other then the IHI.
They will also work with the new BNR upgraded MSM turbos. Here is some info from my thread on mazda-speed.com:

BNR turbo (bnrsupercars.com) will upgrade your stock turbo. They have several options available:

EVO 3 16G/TD05H
EVO10 16G/TD05H
18G/TD05H
20G/TD05H
FP's HTA68/TD05H

I chose the EVO3 16G compressor wheel / TDO5 turbine wheel with Mitsubishi CHRA which is good for close to 400bhp and similar in flow to a GT2871. It's bolt on except for the compressor side. Only slight modifications should be needed to fit the 2.5" inlet and straight outlet (getting creative with a bit of couplers and tubing). The cost of this upgraded turbo is $1000. Everything is basically new except the outside of the turbine housing. This turbo can run up to 25psi. I have been going back and forth between building my engine to get the full potential out of this bad boy, or waiting a bit and just running it up to 250whp for now.

Here are the pics of the new Turbo (from BNR as it was just finished today). The first shows the stock turbo next to the upgraded MSM turbo:





















Thanks to SCR Performance for emailing these pics:

Stock next to BNR












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Old 07-26-2010, 01:35 AM   #5
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what a bummer...

i thought ide be able to get the MSM manifold on the cheap and use any T25 turbo of choice. what type of flange does the IHI turbo use?

thanks for the headsup. anyone have a used FM manifold they want to sell? :-)
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Old 07-27-2010, 01:26 AM   #6
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by the way, does anyone have pics of the OEM MSM oil and water supply locations?
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Old 07-27-2010, 01:31 AM   #7
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Old 07-27-2010, 02:02 AM   #8
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thanks bud
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Old 07-27-2010, 06:26 PM   #9
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here is an interesting question........................


how would you guys attempt to drill into the block for the oil and water supply channels?

i assume this should not be done without a mill, that way you can lay the block perfectly flat and perpendicular to the drilling surface.

in other words, no way should this be attempted with a hand drill and tap, right?

last, are there special bits for creating the flare? i know with certain master cylinders i've worked on (z32 300zx) there is a flare fitting that is pushed inside allowing for a clean seal.

feel free to chime in....

mike
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Old 07-27-2010, 06:58 PM   #10
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I just finished installing a MSM turbo setup on my 00' NB, if you're curious about how I did the lines, feel free to peruse the build thread.

Linkage
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Old 07-27-2010, 07:06 PM   #11
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If you know where you're supposed to be drilling, you can drill and tap for an NPT thread, and then you wouldn't have to worry about being perfectly flat. That's the beauty of NPT threads, it seals with the thread, so no crush washers, o-rings, or flat surfaces to worry about. Lots of oil pans are tapped at an angle since people do it with the engine still in the car.

And holy small turbo Batman! I thought my greddy was small, and that MSM unit is on a 1.8 even.
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Old 07-27-2010, 08:54 PM   #12
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thanks for the input gentlemen.

i want to use the OE locations because the block is empty and was just rebuilt (no oil or water, its all clean).

damn, why is it that we always say "i wish i did that or this" the first time around AFTER you've already gone too far. meaning, i already put the block together, head's rebuilt.. its basically ready to go back in the car. in retrospect, i SHOULD have line-bored the block and installed ARP main studs AND i should have had the machine shop drill and tap the water and oil supply channels on the block.

BUT.. I am pretty confident that I can drill and tap for BANJO style fittings. worse case scenerio, I can always use NPT but I want something more reliable and vibration resistant.

i'll let you guys know how it goes. Thanks again for all the photos and input. cant wait to bring this lill ****** out to a meet when its all said and done.

mike
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:25 PM   #13
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I would think an NPT fitting would be more reliable, two big holes through banjo bolts make them incredibly weak. I've broken quite a few, but then again I make the Hulk look like a dainty super model.
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Old 07-27-2010, 11:56 PM   #14
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To get the flair on a tube there is a special tool for it (its called a double flair tool). Like what was said earlier it would probably be easier to drill and tap for a NPT thread, then use some type of adapter to mate up with a flared tube.
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:11 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aricjm15 View Post
To get the flair on a tube there is a special tool for it (its called a double flair tool). Like what was said earlier it would probably be easier to drill and tap for a NPT thread, then use some type of adapter to mate up with a flared tube.
oh - i already have a double flare tool, i wasnt referring to that or the piping.. i was referring to the conical flare INSERT which goes inside the drilled/tapped hole, much like you would find in a brake caliper - the conical insert is responsible for the seal.

from the machinists i've spoken to, the NPT does work but isnt as reliable due to the tapered threads which are responsible for the seal. i imagine vibration, expansion and contraction all could cause a problem.. but again, this is subjective - everyone will have an opinion.

since the BP block is already machined flat, i will most definitely attempt the banjo method.. especially since this is what comes stock with the MSM motors.

ill letcha guys know how it goes.
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:57 AM   #16
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Is there an adapter from the msm to t2 flange?
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