Talk me out of it..... - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-26-2009, 06:30 PM   #1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 69
Total Cats: 0
Default Talk me out of it.....

I am seriously considering using this: Water to Air Intercooler for my 1.6 T3 project. Any input is welcome.

Thanks
-Rouphis
Rouphis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2009, 06:57 PM   #2
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sandy, Utah
Posts: 175
Total Cats: 0
Default

Do it!
Cpt_Slow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2009, 06:59 PM   #3
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central, TX / Bay area, CA
Posts: 1,272
Total Cats: 3
Default

What turbo kit or DIY plans do you have for a set up?
Gotpsi? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2009, 07:10 PM   #4
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,872
Total Cats: 1,790
Default

have fun
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2009, 07:23 PM   #5
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

try not to let any gays toss their poz-load into you.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2009, 07:46 PM   #6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 69
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotpsi? View Post
What turbo kit or DIY plans do you have for a set up?
I'm still getting all the parts together but, here is my current build list:

T3 .60 intake .48 exhaust
RX8 550cc injectors
DIY MS
Cast fleabay manifold
DIY downpipe
and The above intercooler
Rouphis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2009, 08:30 PM   #7
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

do it then hate it then replace it with an air/air just like meeee
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2009, 09:52 PM   #8
Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 734
Total Cats: 1
Default

Air/water is heavier, more complicated, and has more numerous ways in which it can fail.

What advantages do you perceive air/water having over air/air?
deliverator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 07:34 PM   #9
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 69
Total Cats: 0
Default

Better air flow over the radiator, very simplified charge pipe routing, and less heat soak while in slow moving high boost situations.

-Rouphis
Rouphis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 08:34 PM   #10
Elite Member
iTrader: (24)
 
kotomile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 7,578
Total Cats: 40
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rouphis View Post
... less heat soak while in slow moving high boost situations.
Explain.
kotomile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 08:44 PM   #11
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 398
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rouphis View Post
Better air flow over the radiator, very simplified charge pipe routing, and less heat soak while in slow moving high boost situations.

-Rouphis
Like climbing a mountain?
gompers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 08:45 PM   #12
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,889
Total Cats: 28
Default

^^ More thermal mass in the water than in the air-to-air's aluminum.
ZX-Tex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 08:50 PM   #13
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 69
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kotomile View Post
Explain.
I am not expert.... But it seems that, in an A/A, it is only effective at times in which there are large amounts of air flowing over it.

In the kit I'm looking at, the water would absorb the heat, while the fan on the heat exchange would cool the water. Water holds about 4 times the around of thermal energy that air does.
Rouphis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 08:57 PM   #14
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,889
Total Cats: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rouphis View Post
I am not expert.... But it seems that, in an A/A, it is only effective at times in which there are large amounts of air flowing over it..
Not completely true. The thermal mass of the aluminum comes into play. Even with no airflow, a non-heatsoaked IC will reduce the inlet temps significantly, at least until it gets hot.

You will need significant amounts of airflow through the watercooled heat exchanger as well ultimately. There will just be more damping due to the additional thermal mass. But, until heat_out = heat_in the temperatures will continue to rise. You still need an effective heat exchanger with good airflow to get the heat out of the water into the air.

That is about as brief as I can explain it without going into the Engineeringspeak.
ZX-Tex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 09:08 PM   #15
Elite Member
iTrader: (24)
 
kotomile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 7,578
Total Cats: 40
Default

I meant explain when you would ever find yourself in a "low speed high boost situation".
kotomile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 09:15 PM   #16
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 69
Total Cats: 0
Default

Smoky burnouts?
Rouphis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 09:17 PM   #17
Elite Member
iTrader: (24)
 
kotomile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 7,578
Total Cats: 40
Default

So you're looking to maximize your intercooler performance for burnouts to the detriment of other situations?

Lets break down your understanding of A/W vs. A/A:

Better airflow over the radiator - You still need a heat exchanger for A/W, and where do you plan to put that? In front of the radiator right?

Simplified charge routing - Kinda, you'll have simple air piping, but then by the time you add water lines, pump, and fan, what have you simpified? Which do you think weighs more, also?

I'm not trying to flame you, just trying to put a bug in your ear before you blow money on something which doesn't work like you had hoped. y8s had one and even he is trying to talk you out of it, that should tell you something. The only time I can think of to use a A/W system is for a drag car where the AWIC is filled with icewater as a one-shot deal. This allows them to do without the need for a heat exchanger, and improve the car's aero. You don't need this type of system.
kotomile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 09:21 PM   #18
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

until your water heatsoaks and you're running an interheater.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 09:28 PM   #19
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 69
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kotomile View Post
So you're looking to maximize your intercooler performance for burnouts to the detriment of other situations?
Not quite. You asked me for an example not a real life example. These W/A systems can't to to bad, as they are OEM on many applications.

If this system can perform on par with an A/A, than it is what I would use between the two on a Miata.

What keeps it from being perfect in my mind is the electric pump.

It would be quite bad ***, to mount a belt driven water pump where the idler pully is on the ac belt.

-Rouphis
Rouphis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 09:32 PM   #20
Elite Member
iTrader: (24)
 
kotomile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 7,578
Total Cats: 40
Default

So you'd introduce another source of parasitic drag?


...
kotomile is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Transmission Heat Shield Thread patsmx5 General Miata Chat 46 06-06-2016 11:27 AM
Momo Supercup seat jpreston Miata parts for sale/trade 2 05-17-2016 01:51 AM
New 1st generation miata Owner (southwest PA) mtpratt32 Meet and Greet 3 09-24-2015 10:42 PM
Worm drive clamps are better than t-bolt clamps aidandj Insert BS here 80 09-18-2015 08:19 PM
Which moderator should I talk to? unplugged92 Meet and Greet 4 09-16-2015 07:20 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:48 AM.