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Old 12-01-2008, 10:32 PM   #1
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Default TD04L-13T a good match?

My buddy who brought the Skyline back from Japan (see post https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t28772/#post336299 ) has a TD04L-13T from a '04 WRX that he has offered to GIVE me for my Miata build.

Having done a little research, I found that begi has an adapter for the Subie 3 bolt exhaust flange to fit most maifolds for $139 (I could almost buy a Churbo for that). My real questions are:

A) Regarding the factory wastegate- It is supposed to be set for ~13.8 psi, and yes I understand the wastegate adjuster rod operation, but would there be enough adjustment to back that down to ~7 or 8 for my starter turbo system or am I looking at buying another wastegate actuator?

B)I believe it was OlderGuy that is also running a TD04 (forgive me if that is an error) with very impressive spooling (remembering the "who is making what boost @ what rpm's thread"). Are there any possible pitfalls with that unit that I may encounter? Downpipe compatibility perhaps?

Should I say "thanks" or "no thanks?" And thank you in advance for your help.

S.
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Old 12-01-2008, 11:04 PM   #2
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There are a few on here running the wrx 13t on their cars, did you try a search yet? The 13t flows about the same as the 15 Greddy.
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Old 12-01-2008, 11:50 PM   #3
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Old 12-02-2008, 12:18 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
My buddy who brought the Skyline back from Japan (see post https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t28772/#post336299 ) has a TD04L-13T from a '04 WRX that he has offered to GIVE me for my Miata build.
not bad, find out the mileage though, because after 100k they often **** themselves, and are generally between 40-100 bux if under 60k miles.
Quote:
Having done a little research, I found that begi has an adapter for the Subie 3 bolt exhaust flange to fit most maifolds for $139 (I could almost buy a Churbo for that). My real questions are:
the biggest ******* rippoff ever. just buy the flange from weirtech or many other places for like 20 bux, and weld it on.
Quote:
A) Regarding the factory wastegate- It is supposed to be set for ~13.8 psi, and yes I understand the wastegate adjuster rod operation, but would there be enough adjustment to back that down to ~7 or 8 for my starter turbo system or am I looking at buying another wastegate actuator?
wastegate pressure on those things is around 6psi
Quote:
B)I believe it was OlderGuy that is also running a TD04 (forgive me if that is an error) with very impressive spooling (remembering the "who is making what boost @ what rpm's thread"). Are there any possible pitfalls with that unit that I may encounter? Downpipe compatibility perhaps?
I dont think he is using the wrx td04, as there are MANY td04's out there from all kinds of different cars.

Quote:
Should I say "thanks" or "no thanks?" And thank you in advance for your help.

S.
take it. why not? if anything there is not much modification you will need to do to run it, and can always go back to a garrett unit later should you wish.
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Old 12-02-2008, 12:24 AM   #5
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It's pretty common for the WRX's TD04, properly tuned and with appropriate supporting mods, to get 200 ft/lbs (measured at the wheels on reasonable dynos) before 2k rpm, on even the 2 liter WRX's. On the 2.5l WRX's it's just ridiculously undersized.

They typically max out at around 240hp; with 250hp being a goal that many have but few hit.

Flange difficulties aside, I think it'd be a great pick for a 1.8l and even do respectably well on a 1.6.
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Old 12-02-2008, 12:58 AM   #6
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I've got one and love it. Spool is instant and builds decent enough power. BEGi used my setup to make that adapter they are selling, nothing but a bolt-on subaru flange to Tx(T3 for me). I like them because of OEM quality, water cooled, and as cheap as a chinese turbo if not cheaper.
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Old 12-02-2008, 01:00 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
not bad, find out the mileage though, because after 100k they often **** themselves, and are generally between 40-100 bux if under 60k miles.

the biggest ******* rippoff ever. just buy the flange from weirtech or many other places for like 20 bux, and weld it on.

wastegate pressure on those things is around 6psi

I dont think he is using the wrx td04, as there are MANY td04's out there from all kinds of different cars.


take it. why not? if anything there is not much modification you will need to do to run it, and can always go back to a garrett unit later should you wish.
A stock wrx td04 pushes ~14psi(can reach up to 16.xxpsi), so I don't know where the 6psi figure came from. Unless this turbo didn't come from a stock wrx or with a different actuator
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Old 12-02-2008, 01:12 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazybummm View Post
A stock wrx td04 pushes ~14psi(can reach up to 16.xxpsi), so I don't know where the 6psi figure came from. Unless this turbo didn't come from a stock wrx or with a different actuator
If one looks at the compressor map, it'll be apparent that there's a range at which the WRX's TD04 can put out 19 psi relatively efficiently on a 2.0 liter engine. Some people took it as high as 21psi. Mine stopped making power around 19.

Made for a hell of a mid-range kick but fell on its face up top. <-- occurs to me that might be very different on a 1.6...

It's a limited range (3-5k rpm was the consensus back when I was doing this) and you needed to taper boost down to something more reasonable pretty quickly after 5k. It was expected to be hard on the turbo, but as has been pointed out the turbos themselves are readily available for cheap.
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Old 12-02-2008, 01:31 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazybummm View Post
A stock wrx td04 pushes ~14psi(can reach up to 16.xxpsi), so I don't know where the 6psi figure came from. Unless this turbo didn't come from a stock wrx or with a different actuator
14psi is not wastegate pressure. seach noob.
while the wrx's run ~14psi the wastegate pressure of the stock wga is 6psi. max you can run that thing is 18-19 till it completely runs out of steam. on the 2.0's its ok, on the 2.5's its ridiculously undersized, but packs a very good midrange/lowend torque punch.

on a 1.8 miata it would be a great all around turbo imo, with decent spool and overal power curve. (just look at pipefathers build thread, as well as his spool characteristics in the spool thread.) however it will most likely not go past 240whp. and dont expect an impressive topend

the 13t was my original plan on my 00 since I have a few laying around to use. hell, maybe ill end up using one if this hks doesnt impress me.
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Old 12-02-2008, 10:14 AM   #10
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http://www.stealth316.com/images/td04h-13t-raw.gif


.18 m3/s would be about 370 CFM or 25.6 lb/min or 250BHP -/+ give or take.


you can run that thing up to 3bar (30psi), but once you start making over 180rwhp it's done.
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Old 12-02-2008, 12:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
14psi is not wastegate pressure. seach noob.
while the wrx's run ~14psi the wastegate pressure of the stock wga is 6psi. max
That's the information I was looking for. The wastegate is 6psi, but they use a boost controller to get the 13.8, then? 6psi would be a nice, safe starting position compared to 13! Thank you for your help with that, 18psi.

I have been admiring Pipefather's build process as well. Very nice.

Brain, thanks for the links. I had been through one of the threads you linked beforehand, but not the other. And I had not been on Cardomain at all. Still, none of those helped with the wastegate question. Great craftsmanship in the Cardomain build. I like the heatshield/divider plate he crafted quite a bit.

Thanks.
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Old 12-02-2008, 12:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
http://www.stealth316.com/images/td04h-13t-raw.gif

.18 m3/s would be about 370 CFM or 25.6 lb/min or 250BHP -/+ give or take.

you can run that thing up to 3bar (30psi), but once you start making over 180rwhp it's done.
The link isn't working. I should be able to comfortably get into the low 200's whp with it if I do everything else correctly, dont' you think? Wrx was good for 227 at the flywheel in '04. That's about 180 at the wheels, right?
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Old 12-02-2008, 01:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
The link isn't working. I should be able to comfortably get into the low 200's whp with it if I do everything else correctly, dont' you think? Wrx was good for 227 at the flywheel in '04. That's about 180 at the wheels, right?
Depending on dyno, 180whp stock is reasonable for an '04 WRX.

As 18psi and I have said, people have been able to get ~240whp on WRX's with stock turbos and proper supporting modifications.

Low 200's at the wheels should NOT be a problem for you.
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Old 12-02-2008, 06:20 PM   #14
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exactly/\

the 2.0 wrx dynoes 170-180 stock, the 2.5 ~200. I have seen as much as 290lbs of torque out of that td04, so the midrange is going to be damn good.
the wrx uses a boost control solenoid to get to the 13-14psi that it runs at stock.


you should port the one you will be given like this:




that sucker will spool and boost very well
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Old 12-02-2008, 10:55 PM   #15
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I don't know much about the WRX, but I do know quite a bit about how the WRX turbo performs on a 1.6 miata.

My 155k mile 1.6 is old and tired, but the turbo woke it right up. Here's my build thread:

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t21808/

I've since upped the boost to stay around 10 psi, which I get around 2800 rpm even with a 2.25" exhaust. Its a great setup but if you're after "whp" numbers it may not be the right one for you. Street and track driveability is on a different level though, it feels like an OEM install.
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