TDR i/c allows way more air to the radiator - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-08-2007, 12:52 AM   #21
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

Oh, and it looks like coolant temps are significantly cooler. On a certain mountain run, temps remained barely above my t-stat cracking temperature, while with the AVO ic it would go about 5C hotter.
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 09:13 AM   #22
Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
 
brgracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ambler, PA
Posts: 1,275
Total Cats: 1
Default

Nice work! Always nice to see actual numbers (even if ecu estimates) vs. "it felt faster."

On a completely different note, did ya get the coils I sent yet?
brgracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 10:04 AM   #23
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
m2cupcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,244
Total Cats: 291
Default

jason- how is it positioned relative to the AVO? fore/aft? up/down?
m2cupcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 11:20 AM   #24
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Results:

- spoolup, no change
- topend, slight discernible advantage to AVO (~2%, could be meas error, AEMlog acceleration function)
- temp rise during a 2nd gear run: 4C vs. 6C, advantage AVO i/c, BUT the temps drop back down more quickly with the TDR. The AVO appears to have more thermal mass but heatsoak, the TDR airflow cools it down quick. Peak temps on the track, unknown.

I have yet to measure pressure loss.
was the avo bar and plate?
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 12:03 PM   #25
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,485
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Yes the AVO is bar/plate.
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 02:06 PM   #26
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

thanks timmy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonc sbb
Results:

- spoolup, no change
- topend, slight discernible advantage to AVO (~2%, could be meas error, AEMlog acceleration function)
- temp rise during a 2nd gear run: 4C vs. 6C, advantage AVO i/c, BUT the temps drop back down more quickly with the TDR. The AVO appears to have more thermal mass but heatsoak, the TDR airflow cools it down quick. Peak temps on the track, unknown.
so basically the generalizations about how bar and plate vs tube and fin compare is supported.

a thick-wall square-cornered extrusion behaves like a big heatsink and a smooth tube lets air flow around it better.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 02:17 PM   #27
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
m2cupcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,244
Total Cats: 291
Default

I remember when "bar-n-plate" was cool
m2cupcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 03:08 PM   #28
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,485
Total Cats: 248
Default

Starion baby!
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 09:20 PM   #29
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

It's not just that the tubes are smoother, the opening area of the tdr is much greater. Look at the closeups.

The AVO is a very good i/c; just needs a BEGI scoop. 8-p
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 09:54 AM   #30
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
m2cupcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,244
Total Cats: 291
Default

"opening area" - as in the area between the tubes- right? The area where the air passes through looks to be twice the thickness of the tube on the TDR, whereas it's the same thickness on the bar and plate. (I think that's your point) Same number of tubes on both ICs?

I wished I liked the wizdom front end, because it looks like it would dramatically increase the front end air flow - the scooper just looks too "form follows function". It would be nice to resolve it in a spoiler.
m2cupcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 01:35 PM   #31
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

Exactly. However that would suggest a higher pressure loss for the intake airflow. Given that it's not the case, plus the poorer intake air heat shedding, it's possible the TDR has fewer internal turbulators for the intake airflow.

Last edited by JasonC SBB; 08-09-2007 at 01:47 PM.
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 02:23 PM   #32
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 536
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
"opening area" - as in the area between the tubes- right? The area where the air passes through looks to be twice the thickness of the tube on the TDR, whereas it's the same thickness on the bar and plate. (I think that's your point) Same number of tubes on both ICs?

I wished I liked the wizdom front end, because it looks like it would dramatically increase the front end air flow - the scooper just looks too "form follows function". It would be nice to resolve it in a spoiler.
hmmm that wizdom front end isn't that bad on a white miata
PaKMaN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 02:24 PM   #33
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
m2cupcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,244
Total Cats: 291
Default

Wished I could log the boost levels and air temps pre and post IC with my ecu.

I like the wizdom the best of the "typical" miata aftermarket fronts, just like the OE nose with the OE spoiler better.
m2cupcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 02:48 AM   #34
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
Jason- what are you referring too? the position of the TDR (isn't that the tilt for over the rad pipes)? or the actual intercooler construction?
It leans into the mouth at the top. The AVO was vertical.
I noticed that with the TDR, there was a much bigger gap for air to go above the i/c into the radiator. The gap is between the i/c and the bumper horizontal steel box section. In the AVO the gap could barely pass a finger.
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 02:54 AM   #35
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

Today in 85F weather, 80 mph on the freeway for 20 mins, the a/c, coolant, and oil temps were noticeably cooler. Coolant was ~ 85C, oil was 87C max. Small oil cooler in foglight hole. Normally things would be at least 5C hotter. I'm pleased.
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 09:58 AM   #36
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
m2cupcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,244
Total Cats: 291
Default

Similar to the barNplate vs. tubeNfin argument - is the spacing between heat exchangers. I followed the the thinking that they should all be sandwiched together (I'm assuming your AVO was this way) so that the oncoming wouldn't create a path around the IC. Of course given you're results, it doesn't seem to matter since the coolant temp has improved and your air temps are too.

I guess you'd really need to put the AVO cooler back in their at the same position/angle to make this a legitimate comparison.
m2cupcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2007, 11:28 PM   #37
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

So it was a bit hot today and I took the car to my 2 steep cooling system torture test hills. Talked my way out of a 62 in a 40 ticket on the way there. Road was really wide and really deserted with 6 stinkin' lanes. Rich people complaining...

Result: the coolant is at LEAST 5C cooler than before in similar conditions. That would mean my car can do track days in at least 10F hotter weather than before.
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2007, 12:02 AM   #38
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
m2cupcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,244
Total Cats: 291
Default

Wonder if the gap between the two is also cutting back on any IC heat soak from the rad...
m2cupcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2007, 07:44 PM   #39
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

So today it was 98F out, and I took the car to my torture test hill again.
Result: coolant 107C, oil 108C at the top of the hill.
During freeway cruise, coolant was barely 94C and oil barely 100C.

With my old i/c, I would get about 114C coolant and ~115C oil at the top of the hill under these conditions, and maybe 103C coolant and 110C oil during cruise.

A/C was also very comfy on '3', and I'm an a/c fiend.

Peak intake air temps were 55C; at the bottom of the hill it was 45C. The highest rise was 6C, from 8 seconds of partial boost.
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2007, 08:11 PM   #40
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Severn, MD
Posts: 1,927
Total Cats: 5
Default

So now we need to find an equivalent of this core on ebay.

Frank
fmowry is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Raleigh: Fiberglass headlight scope, 1.6L ECU, AFM, Hardtop latches, more bigmackloud Miata parts for sale/trade 13 09-22-2017 01:34 PM
Expected intake temps on the track? tazswing Race Prep 20 10-03-2015 12:04 PM
Moroso Air Oil Separator Catch Can Aroundcorner Miata parts for sale/trade 2 10-01-2015 04:20 PM
Time to start learning and play with tuning The Gleas MEGAsquirt 3 10-01-2015 10:30 AM
Bad head gasket or ? shooterschmidty Engine Performance 8 09-30-2015 11:28 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:50 AM.