Thinking about how to plumb the wastegate on a Garrett T3 from a Ford 2.3L - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 12-06-2015, 05:17 PM   #1
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Default Thinking about how to plumb the wastegate on a Garrett T3 from a Ford 2.3L

So recently I acquired a Garrett T3 turbo that came from a Ford 2.3L turbo motor (as seen in the Mustang SVO, Merkur XR4ti, and Thunderbird Turbo Coupe). There's more info in my introduction post here:
https://www.miataturbo.net/meet-gree...o-build-86735/



I'm not sure how I should mount this turbo on my Miata's engine, since the turbine housing and wastegate were designed to mount on the passenger side of the Ford engine.



This means that the wastegate housing, with that 90 degree elbow, is pointing the wrong way for a Miata engine. It would be pretty easy to just cut a hole in the hood and have a stack pointing straight up, but that might not be very practical. I could also turn the turbo around so that the hot side is pointed towards the front of the car, but that would present some problems in routing the downpipe and boost pipe past each other.

Would something like this part work? Or is there some other stock part that would allow for more normal exhaust plumbing?
Garrett Swingvalve Internal Actuator Wastegate 5 Bolt to 4 Bolt Adapter Housing | eBay

Another option is to ditch the stock wastegate housing, fabricate a block-off, and run an external wastegate. I might have to do that anyway if the stock wastegate is too small.

Any advice? I'm new to this turbo stuff, if you couldn't tell.

Last edited by shuiend; 12-07-2015 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 12-07-2015, 04:15 PM   #2
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Get a turbo that fits properly?
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Old 12-07-2015, 06:40 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
Get a turbo that fits properly?
You give up too easily.

Reverse the spark plug firing order so the engine runs backwards, mount the intake manifold on the driver's side. Fab up a manifold and Bob's your uncle.

Might want to consider a super tall ring and pinion though, since you will only have one forward gear. On the plus side, you'd be the only guy in town with 5 reverse gears.
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:24 PM   #4
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I can't view the pictures?
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:52 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
Get a turbo that fits properly?
If I can't use this turbo I'll get something a little more tried-and-true. I only paid $20 for this Garrett T3, and it seems to have relatively common flanges, bolt patterns, etc. I want to make sure everything will work before I start ordering more parts, or give up and buy a kit.

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Originally Posted by dleavitt View Post
You give up too easily.

Reverse the spark plug firing order so the engine runs backwards, mount the intake manifold on the driver's side. Fab up a manifold and Bob's your uncle.

Might want to consider a super tall ring and pinion though, since you will only have one forward gear. On the plus side, you'd be the only guy in town with 5 reverse gears.
Yeah, maybe I'll mount the engine upside down too:
Upsidedown V8-60 | The Jalopy Journal The Jalopy Journal

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I can't view the pictures?
Not sure what's going on with that. Here's the url's:
http://i.imgur.com/yCe27ad.jpg
http://drivingline.prd.s3.amazonaws....Roundup-11.jpg
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Old 12-08-2015, 01:53 PM   #6
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That turbo is worth considerably less than $20.
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Old 12-08-2015, 02:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discontinuuity View Post
If I can't use this turbo I'll get something a little more tried-and-true. I only paid $20 for this Garrett T3, and it seems to have relatively common flanges, bolt patterns, etc. I want to make sure everything will work before I start ordering more parts, or give up and buy a kit.
The output of that turbine housing will never work on a miata. You are better off spending $100 on a t25 off of an SR20, or $200 on a china charger t3 turbo like I use in my setups.

Generally the only time using a custom turbo that is out of the norm for miata's is if you can fab everything yourself. Otherwise getting a standard t25 flange turbo with a 5 stud outlet is easiest way to go.
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Old 12-08-2015, 07:29 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
That turbo is worth considerably less than $20.
Why do you say that? The turbine/compressor seem to be in good shape, and there's no bearing play that I can detect.

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Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
The output of that turbine housing will never work on a miata.
That 90 degree elbow is a separate piece. Here's what it looks like:

Ford 2 3L Tbird SVO Garrett T3 Turbo 5 Bolt Wastegate Flange Elbow O2 Housing | eBay

Since the wastegate is a separate piece from the turbo, I want to find a replacement with a straight outlet. The link I posted above seems like it would work, but I wanted to make sure. Maybe I should ask on a Turbo Ford forum if you guys don't know much about this turbo.

It seems like a good turbo for a Miata. From everything I've read, it should start to make boost somewhere between 2500 and 3000 rpm, and will make 200 hp+ pretty easily. That's almost exactly what I'm looking for in this project.
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Old 12-08-2015, 07:41 PM   #9
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Then you almost exactly need to be looking for a turbo that fits your car correctly. Unless you K swap it, then the exhaust will be on the passengers side, but then the turbo will be too small anyway.
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Old 12-08-2015, 08:24 PM   #10
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get a new wastegate.
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Old 12-08-2015, 08:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discontinuuity View Post
Why do you say that? The turbine/compressor seem to be in good shape, and there's no bearing play that I can detect.



That 90 degree elbow is a separate piece. Here's what it looks like:

Ford 2 3L Tbird SVO Garrett T3 Turbo 5 Bolt Wastegate Flange Elbow O2 Housing | eBay

Since the wastegate is a separate piece from the turbo, I want to find a replacement with a straight outlet. The link I posted above seems like it would work, but I wanted to make sure. Maybe I should ask on a Turbo Ford forum if you guys don't know much about this turbo.

It seems like a good turbo for a Miata. From everything I've read, it should start to make boost somewhere between 2500 and 3000 rpm, and will make 200 hp+ pretty easily. That's almost exactly what I'm looking for in this project.
...how do you know where it will start making boost on a miata. Do you have a build from someone that ran it?

You are going to spend a **** ton more than $20 trying to make this work. Can you build your own manifold and downpipe?
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Old 12-08-2015, 10:38 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
get a new wastegate.
That's what I'm thinking. But if I have to spend $80 on a wastegate to make a $20 turbo work, might I be better off getting a brand-new Ebay turbo for $100?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
...how do you know where it will start making boost on a miata. Do you have a build from someone that ran it?
I found this build, which I think uses the same turbo, but it's hard to tell since all the image links are broken:
https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...-thread-10844/

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Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Can you build your own manifold and downpipe?
I was planning on using a cast manifold like this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAZDA-MIATA-MX5-1-8L-T3-T4-T3-T4-PERFORMANCE-IRON-EXHAUST-HEADER-TURBO-MANIFOLD-/321829985485?fits=Model%3AMiata|Engine+-+Liter_Display%3A1.8L&hash=item4aee8fdccd:g:0LAAAO SwMmBVynTs&vxp=mtr

As for a downpipe, I hadn't gotten that far. I assume that a local exhaust shop could weld up something pretty easily and cheaply. If not, I know two local racecar fabricators who would gladly take my money.

Last edited by discontinuuity; 12-08-2015 at 10:52 PM.
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Old 12-08-2015, 10:42 PM   #13
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That's a t25 manifold...
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Old 12-08-2015, 10:53 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
That's a t25 manifold...
You're right, I fixed the link
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Old 12-09-2015, 08:50 AM   #15
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But if I have to spend $80 on a wastegate to make a $20 turbo work, might I be better off getting a brand-new Ebay turbo for $100?
^That's one of the reasons it isn't worth $20.

The other is that it is a very old design and highly inefficient, even compared to the basic Chinese ebay units. The Chinese copied turbos that were ~10 years newer than that one.
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Old 12-09-2015, 11:03 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by discontinuuity View Post
That's what I'm thinking. But if I have to spend $80 on a wastegate to make a $20 turbo work, might I be better off getting a brand-new Ebay turbo for $100?

It's $40 with actuator:

New Internal Wastegate Conversion Kit T3T4 TO4E 5BOLT Swingvalve Actuator T3 | eBay

or $25 without:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T04E-T3-T4-5...xWXibe&vxp=mtr



and you can't find a $100 T3 turbo on eBay. Best price will be closer to $200 for a T3 (not T3/T4), but yes, that's still probably a much better bet.
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Old 12-09-2015, 12:06 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
It's $40 with actuator:

New Internal Wastegate Conversion Kit T3T4 TO4E 5BOLT Swingvalve Actuator T3 | eBay

or $25 without:

T04E T3 T4 5 Bolt to 3" V Band Turbo Charger Downpipe Flange Swing Valve Adaptor | eBay



and you can't find a $100 T3 turbo on eBay. Best price will be closer to $200 for a T3 (not T3/T4), but yes, that's still probably a much better bet.
Thanks for the link, I might go with that one. Or maybe an external wastegate if I can find one for cheap.

I'll probably use the old Garrett turbo for now, and maybe upgrade to a newer design later. It seems to have common enough bolt patterns that I wouldn't have to re-do everything if I wanted to upgrade.
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Old 12-18-2015, 11:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discontinuuity View Post
I'll probably use the old Garrett turbo for now, and maybe upgrade to a newer design later. It seems to have common enough bolt patterns that I wouldn't have to re-do everything if I wanted to upgrade.
Truth. Not saying it will work, but it looks like a T31 exhaust housing. Meaning that the biggest PITA set of issues with switching to a more appropriate unit are greatly reduced vs using something from a now defunct automaker that uses a 4.5 bolt asymetrical pattern with angles out of an MC Escher print.

And a turbo that worked on a 2.3L low comp 4 cylinder with meh head just might actually be usable and fun on a 1.8L moderate comp engine with a decent head.
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Old 12-28-2015, 04:44 AM   #19
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My first thought was - is $100 difference really worth starting your build with something that will give you headaches for the next month(s)? I mean, you'll probably spend so much time trying to figure things out that you could earn those $100 mowing the lawns for your neighbors instead and then start with a proper build.
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Old 12-28-2015, 08:53 AM   #20
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if youre mowing lawns to fund car projects, then you need to graduate HS before you touch your daddy's shitty 1.6L miata.
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