TO4 turbine housing swap possible? *Pics Inside* - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-24-2007, 09:02 AM   #21
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,379
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazzer408 View Post
Yes you would but the wheel still needs a much larger volume then the Miata can flow even if the velocity is increased. The T4 radius is to large to get any real velocity. If I took the wheel from that turbine, and machined a T3 turbine housing to fit, it might spool it eventually. =) hmm I might look into doing that if there's enough metal in the T3 to allow it.
Well yes I understand your point about the wheel, although at 5000 RPM I suspect that there might be enough flow. Especially when you raise the velocity. It would be interesting to know where that point is and what reducing the A/R would accomplish in this case... all academic of course and not 100% practical.

Mark
Markp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2007, 09:16 AM   #22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 564
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markp View Post
Yes, but by blocking one of the ports you effectively reduce the A/R of the turbine
WTF are you talking about? Do you have any clue how A/R is calculated?

A/R is calculated by dividing the turbine discharge diameter's cross-sectional area by the distance between the center of the wheel's shaft and the center of the measured inlet.

Blocking a port on a twin scroll turbine is the stupidest idea ever, won't work like you think it will and discussing it is not worthy of this forum. I can't even believe I'm reading that blocking part of the turbine inlet (which is what you're doing regardless of whether it's twin scroll or not) will help spool. Not to mention, if it worked like you thought it did the A/R would INCREASE, not decrease. Jesus.

That turbo belongs on a tractor. Otherwise it's a paperweight.

EDIT: Sorry to be harsh but it's early and I couldn't take it anymore.

Last edited by jwarriner; 08-24-2007 at 09:27 AM.
jwarriner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2007, 02:24 PM   #23
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,011
Total Cats: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwarriner View Post
EDIT: Sorry to be harsh but it's early and I couldn't take it anymore.
lazzer408 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2007, 02:35 PM   #24
Miotta FTW!
iTrader: (24)
 
Splitime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Posts: 4,295
Total Cats: 26
Default

If anyone wants to hybrid their t3... i have an entire t4 coldside ready... housing/backing plate and compressor wheel.
Splitime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2007, 08:52 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,379
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwarriner View Post
WTF are you talking about? Do you have any clue how A/R is calculated?

A/R is calculated by dividing the turbine discharge diameter's cross-sectional area by the distance between the center of the wheel's shaft and the center of the measured inlet.

Blocking a port on a twin scroll turbine is the stupidest idea ever, won't work like you think it will and discussing it is not worthy of this forum. I can't even believe I'm reading that blocking part of the turbine inlet (which is what you're doing regardless of whether it's twin scroll or not) will help spool. Not to mention, if it worked like you thought it did the A/R would INCREASE, not decrease. Jesus.

That turbo belongs on a tractor. Otherwise it's a paperweight.

EDIT: Sorry to be harsh but it's early and I couldn't take it anymore.
Now wait a second.... I almost was tired enough to concede your point but then my brain actually turned on, it's obvious that you are still a few cups of coffee behind.

If you have a cross sectional area of 1.00 and a radius of 1.00 we have an A/R of 1.00. Agreed?

If we reduce the cross sectional area of the port by 50% it is now 0.50
Over the radius which remains 1.00. Are we following along still?

Then if we divide A/R, 0.50/1.00 = 0.50 A/R

Now I am just a ******* psychology student, not a ******* engineer, but tell me where did I go wrong?

Not to be harsh, but the math seems fairly straight forward.

Mark

PS - I don't think you are being harsh, if I fucked up as bad as you say. Despite being a psychology student feel free to take me to task when I am wrong, you won't hurt my feelings and I might learn something new... which would be great.

Last edited by Markp; 08-25-2007 at 09:12 AM.
Markp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2007, 03:10 PM   #26
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,011
Total Cats: 7
Default

Mark your logic is correct, however, the design of the housing wouldn't allow it to be as efficient as a "real" .50 a/r housing. The size of the wheel alone takes much more cfm to turn it then the smaller wheel found in say a T3 .48. But it would look cool. =)
lazzer408 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2007, 06:13 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,379
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazzer408 View Post
Mark your logic is correct, however, the design of the housing wouldn't allow it to be as efficient as a "real" .50 a/r housing. The size of the wheel alone takes much more cfm to turn it then the smaller wheel found in say a T3 .48. But it would look cool. =)
I realize that it would not be as efficient as a real .50 A/R housing. I was more writing it down to think about the effects than I was suggesting that someone actually implement it.

We agree that the turbine wheel is simply too big for the application here. It would still be interesting to see the effect. People are right in stating that I have no idea how a twin scroll housing works, I never said I did (Remember Mark the Psychologist, Not Mark the Engineer!). All I know about twin scroll divided tang housing is that you can get them to spool earlier than the identical non divided tang housing.

Mark
Markp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2007, 02:06 AM   #28
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (13)
 
cjernigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 8,147
Total Cats: 6
Default

Well how well do you guys think this would work with a .48 turbine T3? The .48 would spool fine I'm sure. But would it pull to redline is more what I'm interested in? I have no problem hybriding the two turbos just wondering how well they might work together.
cjernigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2007, 02:10 AM   #29
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,011
Total Cats: 7
Default

What psi are you planing to run? My T3 (.42/.48) would pull hard into redline running 12-14psi. I'm planing on 15-25psi to reach 300-400hp on the new engine. Hence my need for the larger compressor. The .42/.48 will get you at least 10psi by 3000rpm. If not check for a potato in your tailpipe.

Are you planing on using the T4 compressor? If your goal is only 250hp a T3 should be fine.
lazzer408 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2007, 03:52 AM   #30
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 564
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markp View Post
If we reduce the cross sectional area of the port by 50% it is now 0.50
Over the radius which remains 1.00. Are we following along still?
You are wrong because the "inlet" by which A/R is measured is actually the nozzle area of the turbine scroll, not the inlet of the turbine housing itself. If you were correct then everyone who ever ported a turbo would be changing their A/R, which they are not. If you block half of the turbine inlet then your turbo will spool up slower. Period.
jwarriner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2007, 04:00 PM   #31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,379
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwarriner View Post
You are wrong because the "inlet" by which A/R is measured is actually the nozzle area of the turbine scroll, not the inlet of the turbine housing itself. If you were correct then everyone who ever ported a turbo would be changing their A/R, which they are not. If you block half of the turbine inlet then your turbo will spool up slower. Period.
Ok, paint me a bit of a picture here, because as I stated, I am not an engineer. While I understand that you are saying changing just the inlet size will not change the A/R (or will it because the A/R would no longer be constant and it should be according to Garrett.) where exactly does the nozzle area begin.

Once again, try to understand I don't have an engineering background but would love to know exactly how this is calculated so I don't have to guess at how it works. I know a little about turbos and I can pick a decent turbo to match my goals but that doesn't make me an expert. So feel free to share your knowledge, I am willing to learn something new today.

Thanks,

Mark
Markp is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Raleigh: Fiberglass headlight scope, 1.6L ECU, AFM, Hardtop latches, more bigmackloud Miata parts for sale/trade 13 09-22-2017 01:34 PM
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
Noob to Miataturbo from MA JxPhan Meet and Greet 3 10-02-2015 03:17 AM
Low oil pressure after 1.8 swap and new turbo setup JesseTheNoob DIY Turbo Discussion 15 09-30-2015 03:44 PM
VR6 to Miata Swap ScrapinMX5 Meet and Greet 8 09-28-2015 02:04 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:48 PM.