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Old 01-31-2012, 07:57 PM   #1
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Default Turbo choice and engine build input requested for 2004 msm

So I have a 2004 MSM probably between 210-220whp at the moment. when I originally purchased the msm I came from a 1990 miata with intake header and exhaust. and i figured that almost twice the hp of my last miata would be more than enough.
it was for a while but I am left wanting more. I would buy a faster car but I love the miata and because of the depriciation and the mods. Its just not worth it to sell her.
Ive had alot of people try to talk me into swapping a v8 but I cant bring myself to bastardize a "rare" car. If i had a normal 2004 miata. I would do it no questions asked. So ive decided to build the 4cyl and aim for approx 300-350whp and hopefully stay reliable.

What I am planning is to hopefully overbuild the engine a bit inorder to have a bit more reliability. I am getting my disability check from the army probably before summer this year. and a large portion will be going to build this.

MSPNP tuning.
1000 cc injectors for e-85
9:1 wiesco pistons.
Eagle H beam rods.
0.040" head gasket to bring CR to 8.85:1
Gutted and ported intake manifold. (since begi seems to have dropped the ball on their intake manifold design)
P&P, 3 angle valve job, and any possible work i can afford on the head while its off.
billet oil pump gears.
ATI damper.
ARP headstuds
ARP maincaps.
devils own water/meth injection.

FM springs,
Kelford cams.

ARTECH ramhorn topmount manifold, 3" downpipe, and exhaust.
either GTX2867R or Borg Warner EFR6258
ceramic coating on the manifold, exhaust housing, and downpipe.

GTX will cost more since I'll have to run an external wastegate. but I seem to be able to get a twinscroll exhaust housing for it. and I think (correct me if im wrong) with that and the ceramic coating, the GTX should spool as fast or faster than I do now.

Any suggestions/recommendations/changes? am i shooting too high for hp? or is this a good start.
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:16 PM   #2
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Comparing the EFR6258 (38lb/min) and the GTX2867 (47lb/min) isn't really fair to either turbo. AFAIK Garrett doesn't make a GTX that's comparable to the EFR6258 - the closest you get is the GT2860RS (37lb/min), but the EFR6258 will spool/respond significantly faster. I haven't seen any GTX28 twin-scroll housings out yet, but I could be wrong?

Ceramic is a pain in the ***. I would go with stainless and forget the coatings.

Don't use anything but a factory MLS 94-00 head gasket, and ignore anyone who says otherwise. Squish matters, and if you screw with the HG height you screw with the squish.

Don't bother porting or gutting a factory IM. Have someone build you a custom sheetmetal unit (ARtech?) or put together a hybrid Skunk2/Blox B18 manifold. I have the hybrid B18 piece and it is worth a bunch of power above 5000rpm with very minimal gains under that.

FYI, we're releasing a turbo kit in a few months that will be pretty much exactly what you are looking for - small-volume tubular manifold, EFR6258, 3" stainless downpipe, track-tested parts. The standard kit components will do 300whp without a problem.
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:27 PM   #3
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^^ I'm patiently waiting for this kit
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:32 PM   #4
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Why not run a low comp piston instead of jacking quench?
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Old 01-31-2012, 10:57 PM   #5
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Interesting, I also have an MSM and your goals are similar to where I am now, except I make 305whp on 91oct. On E85 I expect close to 340-350, which I plan on getting tuned for when the weather warms up. My 800cc DW's should give over 1000cc's at our fuel pressure.

I have a BNR hybrid turbo - BNR takes your stock MSM turbo and guts it. Only thing left is the hotside housing which is machine for a TD05 wheel. www.bnrsupercars.com - look under Protege turbo options. I have the EVOIII 16G compressor.

Of course, I would love a GTX2867R with an artech or absurdflow manifold, but that turbo was not around when I started my build. I'm still running the MSM manifold, lol. Here is a dyno of where I am at now (compared to when I bought the car stock with just a FM intake at 10.5psi of boost - from a guy in CO Springs actually).

If your ever up near Fort Collins, you're welcome to check it out.
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Old 01-31-2012, 11:35 PM   #6
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savington I thought the Borg warner was 44lbs a min?
and why is ceramic coating a PITA?
on another note your turbo kit seems pretty interesting. will it be AC/PS compatible? guesstimated price point?

The car will still be a occasional DD. and since the compression ratio helps a smaller engine spool faster id like to keep the CR above 8.5:1 that way its not a complete dog off the line. I guess 9.0:1 will be fine.

is that dynodynamics at revolutions? if so you should be over 305. you car should be about 345whp on a dynojet (from my understanding dynodynamics reads 15% low)
I actually JUST left colorado springs. I had my last dyno done there and hit just under 180 at 9psi with no corrections. since then ive gone to 13psi.

Last edited by Dange; 01-31-2012 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 01-31-2012, 11:50 PM   #7
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That dyno was at TheBoostCreep in Longmont. I'm running about 20psi and would expect 23-24 or so on E-85. I'm running my MSM block, supertech 9:1 pistons and M-tuned rods with belfab valves and springs and ported VVT head.
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