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DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

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Old 07-05-2009, 01:06 PM   #1
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Default Turbo manifolds for the 1.6L almighty engine

Well currently my engine is out and being rebuilt but I"m also looking around for turbo manifolds. It seems like there is only a few choices on ebay and most look like junk, the ones made of stainless. I did see this one though
89-93 MAZDA MIATA 1.6L B6 CAST T3/T4 TURBO MANIFOLD 90:eBay Motors (item 220444527607 end time Jul-05-09 17:48:56 PDT)

I wanted to get your guys take on it, looks good and study. My only thing with it is its a T3 flange, so either I need to find a T3 flanged turbo or get an adapter to a T2 style flange. Though I don't know if the adapter will make it to big. I am not sure on what type of T3 style turbos would work well, yes I will be looking around and currently looking at the spool data.

I saw stuff like these but don't know yet if this cheap chinese crap
T3/T4 60 Trim RB20 / Internal Gate V-Band Turbo:eBay Motors (item 150353422865 end time Jul-08-09 18:02:22 PDT)

Also Has anyone used a Turbo Speciliates manifold? I know generally they are cast iron and T2 flanged. I've seen them on my former car which was a sentra 2002. But not for the miata, not big enough pics, usually they sell them around for 275 for the manifold. IT looked like this.
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I'm looking at getting the MS and running that and dropping in sentra specV 310cc injectors since I would believe that to be enough for up to 200whp, haven't done the math, but I'm pretty sure they support that much on the SpecV atleast.

Anyways thanks and I'll be searching.
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Old 07-05-2009, 01:18 PM   #2
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where are you gonna get a downpipe dude?
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Old 07-05-2009, 01:22 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
where are you gonna get a downpipe dude?
Depends, I would of course try to locate one that could just fit up to it with minor to no modifications or I'll end up creating one with some material and a welder. orginally I was looking for a turbo with a vband and looking for a vband downpipe, but depending on what I find I might just build it myself if I have to. Need\Want to learn how to weld anyways.
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Old 07-05-2009, 01:25 PM   #4
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Don't buy any turbo parts off ebay (unless it's a complete greddy kit). Pick up a Bell Engineering or Flyin Miata kit.
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Old 07-05-2009, 01:32 PM   #5
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The TacoTaco manifold is one of the very few eBay-sourced turbo parts that have been tested and proven to be somewhat reliable. It's a horrid design from a fluid-dynamics standpoint, and you have to do some grinding to get all the nuts on, but it appears to be reasonably well made insofar as the metallurgy and foundry process.

On the other hand...

Bearing in mind that the Bell manifold in either T25 or T3 is only $299, if that extra $140 is going to break you, then you shouldn't be turboing your car.

BEGi / Bell Engineering miata turbo exhaust manfold, header style manifold - BEGi
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Old 07-05-2009, 01:33 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by dustinb View Post
Don't buy any turbo parts off ebay (unless it's a complete greddy kit). Pick up a Bell Engineering or Flyin Miata kit.
Not to be mean, but last I check this was DIY turbo talk not Turbo Kit discussion.
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Old 07-05-2009, 01:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
The TacoTaco manifold is one of the very few eBay-sourced turbo parts that have been tested and proven to be somewhat reliable. It's a horrid design from a fluid-dynamics standpoint, and you have to do some grinding to get all the nuts on, but it appears to be reasonably well made insofar as the metallurgy and foundry process.

On the other hand...

Bearing in mind that the Bell manifold in either T25 or T3 is only $299, if that extra $140 is going to break you, then you shouldn't be turboing your car.

BEGi / Bell Engineering miata turbo exhaust manfold, header style manifold - BEGi
Yeah indeed does look like less than stellar design for internal gas movement compared to those bell mani's, thanks for the link. Regarding the money, if it breaks it breaks, I have backup transportation incase in form of another car and scooter.
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Old 07-05-2009, 01:59 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Techsalvager View Post
Not to be mean, but last I check this was DIY turbo talk not Turbo Kit discussion.
Last time I checked someone with no welding experience couldn't make a turbo kit.

Not to be mean, but I really think a kit is the best option. Or at least buy the manifold from bell engineering, and then you know you can get a downpipe to actually fit it if your welding doesn't pan out.
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Old 07-05-2009, 02:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Techsalvager View Post
Not to be mean, but last I check this was DIY turbo talk not Turbo Kit discussion.
You're right, but there's no reason to be a douche about it. Posts like this have no value and with 6 posts yourself, you don't need to be giving people **** that you're asking for advice. Posts that start out "not to be mean" or "don't take this the wrong way" are ******* lame. If you want to tell a guy to **** off, then tell them, but don't be a *****. Dustin's post had no value in this dicsussion because he gave no background information, no reason why eBay parts are bad and the others are good... and he's certainly wrong tell you to buy a Greddy kit... that's just about the worst waste of money you could do. If he had actually provided some good information, then his post would have been quite relevant... the pro's and con's of DIY vs. Kit is always welcome... if this had been a "kit" question and not a "manifold" question.

In any case, this is the DIY forum and everything Joe said is correct. It would be helpful if we knew what kind of power goal you were looking at, what your budget was, what yours kills are. You can put a short writeup of your car and it's current state of modification in your signature, in addition to a one-sentence goal.

You'll also find that the majority of major posters on this forum, are also major posters over at the m.net forum and the various other turbo-specific Miata forums.

Obviously there are hi and lo-dollar parts to any turbo build. The manifold/DP combo, the turbocharger itself, and the ECU if you're going that route. You can find complete used Mani/DP combos from FM and Bell in the classifieds all the time for $500 or less, that won't break and have excellent flow... or you can spend $350 on the eBay combo that flow's like **** and will be broken in a month. That should be the end of that discussion. "If it breaks, it breaks" is fine, but when people come in looking for advice, then buy things we tell them no to, then start a thread "you guys were right, it broke, now what" get **** on and told to **** off. The advice you're getting now is priceless. Don't buy eBay manifolds and downpipes... DON'T DO IT! If you can't afford new, buy used Bell or FM pieces out of the classifieds. End of discussion.

For your 1.6, you also have the Greddy option. The Greddy manifold and turbocharger are decent pieces. They are very reliable and can provide up to about 250whp with the proper setup. Used "upgraded" and complete Greddy kits also come up for sale all the time in the classifieds. Everything that comes in the stock "Greddy kit" is useless except the manifold and turbocharger. I think you can get new Greddy kits for abou $1200, but everything except those 2 parts are no better than scrap. A new Bell T3 mani is $300, and you can pick up a T3-S60 for $500 new... and for another $500, you might just have enough to comlete a running T3 kit depending on how cheap you can find a DP.

So, if you haven't read the STICKY's throughout the various forums, do that now. READ THE STICKY'S! Also visit the Bell and FM websites and see what they offer new. Also run through the classifieds for the past few months and do some homework on the frequency of certain parts and the going rates. Then DOWNLOAD Craigshelper or any of the other CL search engine programs and start searching the entire country for parts daily... it's pretty easy, and you never know what will pop up within driving or short-shipping distance that never make it to a forum classified.

Welcome to the forum!
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Old 07-05-2009, 02:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustinb View Post
Last time I checked someone with no welding experience couldn't make a turbo kit.

Not to be mean, but I really think a kit is the best option. Or at least buy the manifold from bell engineering, and then you know you can get a downpipe to actually fit it if your welding doesn't pan out.
yeah I thought about that as well for the mani downpipe. I'm hard headed and gonna stick it out the cheap reliable way out of the pick 3. Anyways I know you are trying to be helpful so its all good, sorry for eariler.
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Old 07-05-2009, 02:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
You're right, but there's no reason to be a douche about it. Posts like this have no value and with 6 posts yourself, you don't need to be giving people **** that you're asking for advice. Posts that start out "not to be mean" or "don't take this the wrong way" are ******* lame. If you want to tell a guy to **** off, then tell them, but don't be a *****. Dustin's post had no value in this dicsussion because he gave no background information, no reason why eBay parts are bad and the others are good... and he's certainly wrong tell you to buy a Greddy kit... that's just about the worst waste of money you could do. If he had actually provided some good information, then his post would have been quite relevant... the pro's and con's of DIY vs. Kit is always welcome... if this had been a "kit" question and not a "manifold" question.
Yeah I messed up on that but I didn't know how stuff was handled compared to miata.net so I opted for the less verbal put off way.

Quote:
In any case, this is the DIY forum and everything Joe said is correct. It would be helpful if we knew what kind of power goal you were looking at, what your budget was, what yours kills are. You can put a short writeup of your car and it's current state of modification in your signature, in addition to a one-sentence goal.
Allright will stick it in, budget is cheap nothing high right now atleast not until I find another job, mostly under 500 depends if I finally sell my stuff from my other car. Currently looking for another 1.6l engine to drop in cause the current is out. I'm not after a set certain hp goal, more likely just a noteicable gain in the butt dyno. Don't give a care about kills.

Quote:
You'll also find that the majority of major posters on this forum, are also major posters over at the m.net forum and the various other turbo-specific Miata forums.
Yes I noticed.

Quote:
Obviously there are hi and lo-dollar parts to any turbo build. The manifold/DP combo, the turbocharger itself, and the ECU if you're going that route. You can find complete used Mani/DP combos from FM and Bell in the classifieds all the time for $500 or less, that won't break and have excellent flow... or you can spend $350 on the eBay combo that flow's like **** and will be broken in a month. That should be the end of that discussion. "If it breaks, it breaks" is fine, but when people come in looking for advice, then buy things we tell them no to, then start a thread "you guys were right, it broke, now what" get **** on and told to **** off. The advice you're getting now is priceless. Don't buy eBay manifolds and downpipes... DON'T DO IT! If you can't afford new, buy used Bell or FM pieces out of the classifieds. End of discussion.

For your 1.6, you also have the Greddy option. The Greddy manifold and turbocharger are decent pieces. They are very reliable and can provide up to about 250whp with the proper setup. Used "upgraded" and complete Greddy kits also come up for sale all the time in the classifieds. Everything that comes in the stock "Greddy kit" is useless except the manifold and turbocharger. I think you can get new Greddy kits for abou $1200, but everything except those 2 parts are no better than scrap. A new Bell T3 mani is $300, and you can pick up a T3-S60 for $500 new... and for another $500, you might just have enough to comlete a running T3 kit depending on how cheap you can find a DP.
Thanks

Quote:
So, if you haven't read the STICKY's throughout the various forums, do that now. READ THE STICKY'S! Also visit the Bell and FM websites and see what they offer new. Also run through the classifieds for the past few months and do some homework on the frequency of certain parts and the going rates. Then DOWNLOAD Craigshelper or any of the other CL search engine programs and start searching the entire country for parts daily... it's pretty easy, and you never know what will pop up within driving or short-shipping distance that never make it to a forum classified.
Like I said I am reading the sticky, but I do appericate that craigshelper info. That will be helpful
Welcome to the forum![/QUOTE]
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Old 07-05-2009, 02:35 PM   #12
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I went the ebay route and got screwed. The first one I bought was a manifold / downpipe combo, and the manifold was crap and the downpipe didn't fit. I had purchased a DSM t25 turbo for it (off of ebay), and spent a bunch of time getting the downpipe to fit, only to find out that the turbo was cracked in the cartridge. I purchased a new 16G from a local turbo shop, and my motor blew up a few days later. I could only find a 1.8 litre motor, so I bought that, but I then couldn't find a proper manifold or downpipe to fit the turbo, so I sold all the damn parts at a loss. I then did a complete new build, all DIY. My co-worker is an amazing aluminum / stainless welder (all his tickets, worked in food industry and fish industry welding stuff), but he's also crazy busy. I got some amazing parts out of it, and I realized after seeing all the work he had to put into the downpipes and charpipes that there would be no way for myself to do it. I would have to have tons of welding experience to come even close. It also took about 2 months to get it done.

So sorry if I came off as a douche too. I've been buying off ebay since 1999 (original account still), and I've found some good stuff, but turbo things on ebay have been a total fail for me. Whenever I see turbo and ebay I just get angry.
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Old 07-05-2009, 02:37 PM   #13
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Oh and the Greddy kit as it comes is somewhat crap, but if you make it a DIY (which a lot of people have), you can get some great numbers out of it. A friend of mine went that route, and made like 145whp with it straight out of the box. After getting a new downpipe, charge pipes, intercooler, recirc valve, boost controller, and AEM EMS, he's up to 218WHP and 199 torque. So I consider the greddy kit a DIY.
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Old 07-05-2009, 02:45 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustinb View Post
I went the ebay route and got screwed. The first one I bought was a manifold / downpipe combo, and the manifold was crap and the downpipe didn't fit. I had purchased a DSM t25 turbo for it (off of ebay), and spent a bunch of time getting the downpipe to fit, only to find out that the turbo was cracked in the cartridge. I purchased a new 16G from a local turbo shop, and my motor blew up a few days later. I could only find a 1.8 litre motor, so I bought that, but I then couldn't find a proper manifold or downpipe to fit the turbo, so I sold all the damn parts at a loss. I then did a complete new build, all DIY. My co-worker is an amazing aluminum / stainless welder (all his tickets, worked in food industry and fish industry welding stuff), but he's also crazy busy. I got some amazing parts out of it, and I realized after seeing all the work he had to put into the downpipes and charpipes that there would be no way for myself to do it. I would have to have tons of welding experience to come even close. It also took about 2 months to get it done.

So sorry if I came off as a douche too. I've been buying off ebay since 1999 (original account still), and I've found some good stuff, but turbo things on ebay have been a total fail for me. Whenever I see turbo and ebay I just get angry.
yeah no problem, turbo stuff on ebay is big area of crap alot of times, there is a few things just got to be careful. I can understand now why you dislike ebay and turbo in a sentence.
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Old 08-06-2009, 10:22 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Techsalvager View Post
yeah no problem, turbo stuff on ebay is big area of crap alot of times, there is a few things just got to be careful. I can understand now why you dislike ebay and turbo in a sentence.
I really depends on your luck with ebay parts I had all ebay turbo parts on my 98 corvette and never ran into any issues with any thing. I put the car together almost 2 years ago and the car made 514whp with all ebay parts. Some people have made srious number with ebay stuff some people just have bad luck. If a seller has less than 99% feedback I refuse to buy from them.
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Old 08-07-2009, 08:19 AM   #16
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Not knowing the state of prices across the pond I can't say for sure but You could always tack weld the parts together (even I can do that) then get a friend or hired welder of sufficient ability to weld it up fully.

Personally I'm tacking then welding myself when my flange gets here but I am only doing this because I will be grinding the inner surfaces as I go for that little extra flow.
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Old 08-07-2009, 09:56 AM   #17
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You should just get this combo:

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For sale thread: https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t30232/
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Old 08-07-2009, 10:55 AM   #18
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i should just close this lame thread that got drug up for no reason
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