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DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

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Old 11-17-2008, 09:55 AM   #1
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Default Tweeking FM

So, I've had my '90 turbo miata for less than a year. Driven it less than a oil change. Now all I want for Christmas is MORE POWER. I feel my 2.0 litre FMII needs a better exhuast manifold, pipes, larger intercooler, meth, and the disco spud for 300 hp.

I think I've found most of what I'm looking for. I'll start with quick stuff like a snow job meth kit, a 15" FM intercooler with a bov re-circ line (I'm gonna miss the whistle), and the header. Then the pipes and a (off the shelf?) GT2860rs in the spring when I have more time to do a lot of tuning.

But before I put my money down I'm interested in any recomendations as to the header. I've seen the m-tuned and the ETD. What others do I need to look at?

I'm looking for clean fast spools and no external waste gate. I've got my mind on a unit I've seen folks with but can't seem to locate myself. A nice equal lenght set up that rolls 145* out of the head down to a bottom collector. Something that won't cook the hood.
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Old 11-17-2008, 10:18 AM   #2
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Put a list of mods in your signature... that way I wouldn't have to ask what ECU/Injectors/Turbo you're running now. An FMII Hydra w/2560 should have no problem hitting 300whp. Are you on the stock exhaust or something?

For 2.0, I'd say you're prime candidate for a 2871 or GT30. The DP will get you there fine and spool like a big dog, but I think most guys will say a slightly larger turbo is a better match. One of those and a 3" turboback at around 16-17psi should get you into the 350whp range. I don't know what the max numbers anybody has made on the standard FM cast manifold, but I'd assume it's good for 350whp.
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Old 11-17-2008, 10:24 AM   #3
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You dropped $10k on the motor alone and you are HOPING to make 300hp? What am I missing here?


What you need is an AbsurdFlow manifold and downpipe. Contact Shore Motorsports in my sig.

The stock design intake manifold becomes restrictive with boost way before redline. Got any info on what you run and maybe a dyno graph?
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Old 11-17-2008, 11:00 AM   #4
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Looks good, and I can see it works with the t25. T28 fits a bit different but looks like fenders got room. A bath of coating, and a FM divorced down pipe and that just might work.
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Old 11-17-2008, 11:31 AM   #5
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there's no reason your current turbo cant make 300rwhp. needz more flowz.
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Old 11-17-2008, 03:06 PM   #6
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Figures, he bought an already built car and isn't fully aware of what he has. Those injectors are tiny for that application, pick up some 720's and you will have plenty of headroom. Uncork the exhaust and let her breathe. Do those things and report back.
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Old 11-17-2008, 03:26 PM   #7
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At 13psi with that setup, you should be making 250whp... probably a little more. You can keep the 2560, it's enough for low 300's. Your 440's have to be close to 90% duty cycle at 13psi, need more injector.

My recommendation for 300whp...
Enthuza 3" exhaust w/test pipe $1k.
550cc+ injectors (RX7 550's are cheap... or RC's if you've got the $$): $150-$400 depending on used/new and size. Bigger is better as that motor will support 400+whp and you might as well have the headroom.

I'd keep the downpipe you have. An "upgrade" to a divorced gas DP won't get you the gains a 3" exhaust will. A DP upgrade is about 1/2 price of a production 3" exhaust, but the exhaust will be worth significantly more in the gains department.

Take it to a dyno and spend 2hours with somebody who know's their ****. You'll probably need 15-16psi, but 300whp is easy with what you have, big exhaust, and bigger injectors.

I'd leave the IC you have for now... after it's been tuned, spend a few days monitoring your IAT's to see if it's still up to the task. During the winter, it probably will be... but next summer, maybe an upgrade is needed... but save your money for now.
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Old 11-17-2008, 03:29 PM   #8
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needs more: intake manifold, bigger exhaust, injector.


it's all about removing restrictions and increasing efficiency, and having enough fuel to support it.
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Old 11-20-2008, 06:54 AM   #9
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Thanks for all your opinions. I'll continue to take them under consideraton. In the mean time I think I've found a intercooler upgrade here in the classifeds, and I've ordered the Meth injection. I'll continue to debate between the BEGI S4 and the Absurdflow exhaust manifold while I consider ways to keep a 3" exhaust quiet.
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:22 AM   #10
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With the BEGI exhaust manifold you could also buy their downpipe if needed. With the Absurdflow, you'll have to wait until I make a jig of Paul's or Artie's downpipe or have someone make you one. With the Absurdflow there's lots of room there and it's very straight so anyone halfway decent should be able to make the DP.

And you could be making 300rwhp with the 2560. Paul did it with 14psi on a 1.8 using the 2560 and BEGI's old cast intake manifold, whereas Artie is around 270rwhp/265torque with a stock intake.

I'd rock the 2781 on the 2.0.
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:26 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedinIan View Post
..... while I consider ways to keep a 3" exhaust quiet.
How quiet do you need? Magnaflow's 5x8x18 3" stainless mufflers are surprisingly quiet and have no drone. Y8S/matt even stuck the 5x8x22 3" muffler under the back of his car using some nice bends.

Edit:
these are dyno runs so it's louder than outside, but these are Absurdflow 3" stainless exhausts
my car with the 5x8x18 3" muffler:


Evan's MSM with a 5x8x14:


Paul's with a 4"x12"? resonator after the cat, no muffler:


On the other hand,
JohnDoe's 3" enthuza, BEGI turbo kit, 2560:



I run RC440cc injectors on my 1.8 at 290rwhp/14psi. I am just at 80% duty cycle but I run 54psi fuel pressure static, an aeromotive 1:1 AFPR, and my own dual feed fuel rail. If I were starting from scratch I'd go with a larger injector obviously (the 440's are leftover from my 1.6/Link ECU days), and if I had your built engine I'd build it to support over 400rwhp...just cause that'd be fun. hehe. good luck and enjoy.

Last edited by TurboTim; 11-20-2008 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:24 AM   #12
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We still don't really know all that much about your car. What version FM kit does it run? I'm assuming it's OLD due to the Link and 440s. They haven't done that in a while. I'd keep the manifold and clean up/blend the casting inside. I'd replace the downpipe with a BEGi 3" exit pipe and a 3" exhaust. Unless you got the extra cash to blow, then go with the new stuff.

The Link is one of your biggest holdbacks. Ditch it for a MSPNP and gain 10whp, maybe 15whp with a Hydra. What are you doing about ignition? You'll want something better than the original.

What cylinder head are you running? Headwork is the key to spool, but aftermarket valves are really easy and comparatively inexpensive. Cam gears are awesome too (reduce overlap)

Then you'll need fuel. I'm a fan of a bigger in tank pump and you'll want at least 550 cc injectors. Get good injectors and stay away from the old style (rx7) pintle type.
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Old 11-25-2009, 05:39 AM   #13
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Quote:
I run RC440cc injectors on my 1.8 at 290rwhp/14psi. I am just at 80% duty cycle but I run 54psi fuel pressure static.
I run RC550cc injectors on my 1.8 at 235rwhp/14psi. I am just at 85% duty cycle and I run 45psi fuel pressure. AFR 11.x in boost.

So, I squirt about 10% more fuel, yet make far less power. Is this SuperFlow 4WD load dyno versus DynoJet you make up the output number yourself?
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:43 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookyfish View Post
I run RC550cc injectors on my 1.8 at 235rwhp/14psi. I am just at 85% duty cycle and I run 45psi fuel pressure. AFR 11.x in boost.

So, I squirt about 10% more fuel, yet make far less power. Is this SuperFlow 4WD load dyno versus DynoJet you make up the output number yourself?
Besides the difference in dynos, it just might be possible my entire setup is more efficient than yours at converting fuel to power.
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Tweeking FM-ttdynoplot.jpg   Tweeking FM-ttspool.jpg  
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Old 11-25-2009, 10:41 AM   #15
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Not to be a dick or anything, but can you guys show me all of these "easy 300whp on gt2560" cars. There's Paul and....

The 2560 is running on it's edge over 15 psi, and at that it takes ultimate flow and a perfect tune.

How many 2560s were at the Mid-A dyno day? How many made 300 whp?

The 2560 isn't really a 300whp turbo and I wouldn't run it as such. Nice for the 250-270 range.

Frank
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:20 AM   #16
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2.0? The FM Stroker? 2860??? WTF is wrong with you? Is your brain broken? Please put a ******* GT35 on it and stop sandbagging. Or are you just a *****? Get a GT35 and let that 2.0 flow that bitch. There is some dyno chart floating around here or on Miata.net which shows a back to back comparison of a GT30 and GT35- the difference in spool is negligible and the top end capability for the GT35 is superior. If the sound of more power doesn't make you happy, buy my BEGI ST GT3071 kit ok? because I want a GT35 after seeing that chart.

And what is up with your fear of EWG? Do a search for overboost issues and you won't find EWG mentioned at all. You bolt the gate on properly and it will work.

As for the hood cooking that is what all ten billion of the turbine heat shields are for.

When you decide to get real and show those poor stock motors what your stroker is capable of, please do get a real EMS. There are a lot of used Hydras for sale and MSPNP is chezeap.
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:25 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmowry View Post
Not to be a dick or anything,
It's ok, being a dick is allowed here

Quote:
but can you guys show me all of these "easy 300whp on gt2560" cars. There's Paul and....
300rwhp on a GT2560R is not easy. Paul is the only one to do it (dynojet) to my knowledge, using a begi intake mani/70mm TB.

Quote:
The 2560 is running on it's edge over 15 psi, and at that it takes ultimate flow and a perfect tune.
Actually it takes absurdflow, not ultimate flow. Close.

Quote:
How many 2560s were at the Mid-A dyno day?
which mid-a dyno day? I don't know either way.

Quote:
How many made 300 whp?
Again to my knowledge the only person to do that is Paul and that was a few dyno days back. At this past dyno day Artie made like 240ish (down from 270ish) with a stock 99 intake/head and saintfoo made 270ish with a begi intake/70mmTB and worked 99 head.

Quote:
The 2560 isn't really a 300whp turbo and I wouldn't run it as such. Nice for the 250-270 range.

Frank
I did 268rwhp on my '94 1.8 with the 2560 at 12psi. only 230ish torque though. Some people say my wacky intake mani helped but IMHO if anything it hurt with the kink in the plenum plus the bottom half uses the OEM 94 intake runners at full length and OEM throttle body so whatever.
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:28 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmowry View Post
Not to be a dick or anything, but can you guys show me all of these "easy 300whp on gt2560" cars. There's Paul and...
Mine should be there. I was at 270 and climbing hard at 6500 rpm on a stingy-ish dyno and Xede piggy. We'll see what happens once the tune is finished with the MS2. No, that's not "easy", it's using the turbo for everything it's worth. I think bottom mount and straight downpipe do a lot more than people realize.

Quote:
Originally Posted by faeflora View Post
2.0? The FM Stroker? 2860??? WTF is wrong with you? Is your brain broken? Please put a ******* GT35 on it and stop sandbagging. Or are you just a *****? Get a GT35 and let that 2.0 flow that bitch. There is some dyno chart floating around here or on Miata.net which shows a back to back comparison of a GT30 and GT35- the difference in spool is negligible and the top end capability for the GT35 is superior. If the sound of more power doesn't make you happy, buy my BEGI ST GT3071 kit ok? because I want a GT35 after seeing that chart.

And what is up with your fear of EWG? Do a search for overboost issues and you won't find EWG mentioned at all. You bolt the gate on properly and it will work.

As for the hood cooking that is what all ten billion of the turbine heat shields are for.

When you decide to get real and show those poor stock motors what your stroker is capable of, please do get a real EMS. There are a lot of used Hydras for sale and MSPNP is chezeap.
Right on man. Little turbos FTL. But I wouldn't just toss the MSPNP; you can upgrade it to MS2 for about $100--which is a pretty serious upgrade.
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:31 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
Besides the difference in dynos, it just might be possible my entire setup is more efficient than yours at converting fuel to power.
The second dyno is off. The torque and hp do not cross at 5252RPM so they are on different scales.
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:41 AM   #20
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Coming from some one with a 2.0L, you need to get ATLEAST a .86AR 2871R or 2876R. Both of those turbos would easily retain daily drivability with little to no lag. I wish I had gone with a 2871R and I am kicking myself.
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