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Old 02-25-2016, 10:17 PM   #1
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Default Ultra short turbo drain line

What are your suggestions for building a very short turbo drain line? The forged 45* AN fittings I just got in hopes of building something that isn't terrible are too long. Running the ARTech low mount manifold with a 2560 and trying to use the stock MSM drain location.

In this picture the bottom NPT-AN adapter is finger tight, a little room will be gained by snugging it up but not even close to what I need.


In this picture the NPT-AN adapter is removed and the 45* AN fitting held flush against the flange. Enough room there is not.


For the past year I ran a 45* socketless adapter on the turbo side to a hose barb on the pan side. It kind of worked, the hose is partially kinked and has collapsed on itself creating a massive restriction that I believe causes the turbo seals to leak at idle when the PCV vent doesn't route to the intake. Or in other words, the turbo seals leak oil at idle unless the crankcase has a vacuum. This condition has hidden just how poorly the turbo drains.

Swapping the NPT flanges out for male AN flanges will buy a small amount of room and look something like #2 above. There won't be much room for flex in a 1/4" long piece of hose.

Replace the turbo side 45 with a straight fitting and hope the hose doesn't kink? Braided hose has a better bend radius than the socketless I was using.

Hose barbs on both ends with some high temp hose?

Man up and drill the pan in a better spot?
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Old 02-25-2016, 10:21 PM   #2
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If the hose is too short (and that looks like it definitely qualifies), then it won't flex enough to allow you to install it when the turbo is installed.

--Ian
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Old 02-25-2016, 10:29 PM   #3
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If it did, I'd ask a local hydraulic shop to lend you a couple crimp on fittings, I bet they have a shorter profile.
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Old 02-25-2016, 11:48 PM   #4
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Buy 2 straight barbed NPT fittings and 2 barbed 45* NPT fittings. And a foot of oil-safe rubber line. This way you have some options at hand when you go to "fabricate" the solution. And even with those fittings you might not need, you will still be at half the cost of one of those AN components.
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Old 02-26-2016, 12:44 AM   #5
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bit of thread jack, but what npt adapter is that on your msm pan? A generic t25 flange?
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Old 02-26-2016, 01:06 AM   #6
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The three barbed fittings is an interesting idea. Where are you guys getting high temp hose from? Only good option I found at Mcmaster is $20/ft.

Yes, t25 flange. If I end up drilling the pan and moving the return you can have it.
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Old 02-26-2016, 01:47 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NBoost View Post
Buy 2 straight barbed NPT fittings and 2 barbed 45* NPT fittings. And a foot of oil-safe rubber line. This way you have some options at hand when you go to "fabricate" the solution. And even with those fittings you might not need, you will still be at half the cost of one of those AN components.
The advantage to the AN lines is that you can take them off and put them back on again. Rubber hose on barbs that's baked in turbo heat for a while usually requires a knife to come off.

--Ian
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Old 02-26-2016, 02:01 AM   #8
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I had this same problem see my build thread (at the beginning). Push-loc fittings are quite a bit shorter, I'll find pics tomorrow.
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Old 02-26-2016, 03:39 AM   #9
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Tried that initially, think you suggested that in my build thread. They don't fit either and are longer than the ones pictured.

If the drain wasn't spaced an inch out from the pan wall this wouldn't be a problem. I think that will get capped and a new hole drilled.
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Old 02-26-2016, 09:06 AM   #10
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What about an NPT-pushloc 45* fitting? fitting
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Old 02-26-2016, 10:07 AM   #11
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I welded an AN fitting onto my pan. You could do the same to that flanged NPT fitting or make your own flange to eliminate the adapter. Will using a barb at the CHRA then give you a reasonable length of hose to make the curve to the 45 at the pan? That's the place to use the barb since oil is not flowing into the face of the barb end. I used one there and never had it leak. Might consider using another metal than aluminum for the fittings with a hose section that short/rigid.
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Old 02-26-2016, 10:53 AM   #12
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I keep looking at that first picture, and thinking that as much as I dislike press-fit hose in general, that it's the easy solution here without having to re-drill the pan, and it's not like it's going to be under pressure.

Remove the AN adapter from the turbo, and replace it with a straight hose barb. Or better yet, unscrew the flange from the turbo and replace it with one that has an integral barb fitting, such as this: http://www.treadstoneperformance.com...+5%2F8%22+Barb

Remove the AN adapter from the plate on the pan, and replace it with a 45 barb.

Find some reinforced hose rated for use with hot oil (example, or example) and install it between the two.
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Old 02-26-2016, 12:08 PM   #13
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For anyone who doesn't like puch-loc, you should try them out one day. I used it for my fuel system on my car. Looked into it, they are tested at 3x their rated pressure and can not leak/burst at that pressure. The stuff I used was rated at 350 PSI, meaning it can hold 1,000+ without a leak or burst. Good enough for me. Also once you install the hose onto the fitting (which is a huge pain BTW, like trying to put a 1/4" hose on a 3/8" barb...) it will never come off without a knife. You'd rip the hose before it slide off the hose barb.
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Old 02-26-2016, 12:11 PM   #14
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I also used pushloc/Socketless Aeroquip AQP hoses and love them.

I'm just not too convinced yet for e85 fuel applications.

I'd probably use the barb/silicone drain hose method versus AN. You will have far less radiant heat issues than mine, as my drain passes right next to a long runner manifold. Never had an issue.
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Old 02-26-2016, 12:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
(Push-Lok)
Rated for oil at 150C, looks like good stuff.

Available at local hydraulic shops, I assume? How is it for flexibility compared to reinforced silicone?
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Old 02-26-2016, 12:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psyber_0ptix View Post
I also used pushloc/Socketless hoses and love them.

I'm just not too convinced yet for e85 fuel applications.

I'd probably use the barb/silicone drain hose method versus AN. You will have far less radiant heat issues than mine, as my drain passes right next to a long runner manifold. Never had an issue.
I've had it on my car for a year now on E85. I run 60 PSI base pressure, 1:1 regulator, twin pumps, all the boost, no leaks, no problems. Why are you not convinced?

For OP, I'd use barb fittings/hose, and throw some fire sleeve over it for protection if needed.
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Old 02-26-2016, 12:16 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Rated for oil at 150C, looks like good stuff.

Available at local hydraulic shops, I assume? How is it for flexibility compared to reinforced silicone?
I bought mine from SummitRacing when I bought all the fittings too from them. It's as flexible as regular fuel hose, with 6AN you can make a bend with a 1.5" radius no problem. Silicone would colapse compared to this stuff.
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Old 02-26-2016, 12:50 PM   #18
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I've seen push loc fail. I would never use it for anything that is pressurized. So basically vent lines to a a catch can is the only thing I would ever use it for...

If barbed fittings and hose was kind of working before, then just get an appropriate sized spring and put it inside the hose. No more kinks.
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Old 02-26-2016, 12:54 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arca_ex View Post
I've seen push loc fail. I would never use it for anything that is pressurized. So basically vent lines to a a catch can is the only thing I would ever use it for...

If barbed fittings and hose was kind of working before, then just get an appropriate sized spring and put it inside the hose. No more kinks.
An oil drain sees no more pressure than a crankcase vent lol.
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Old 02-26-2016, 02:14 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
An oil drain sees no more pressure than a crankcase vent lol.
Yes I know, you kind of misinterpreted my post, I guess I should have added in "like" before "vent lines". I said anything non pressurized and just meant catch can lines as an example.
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