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Old 06-27-2012, 02:53 AM   #1
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Default A Very Simple Turbo Kit Proposal - Specualtors welcome

I originally pitched this on cr.net and was told to pitch here. (please be aware, I am conscience of what I am doing and do have some knowledge of the subject. I am well aware of it will do to my engine stress and performance wise.)

Alright guys, I have been searching like crazy, but I apologize if I have any of my info mixed up.

I am looking for a very simple turbo setup to run low boost that can put together very easily.
My boost goal - 7-9psi

The kit itself:
1.Exhaust
- some form of manifold and downpipe
- some form of aftermarket exhaust: 2.5" diameter or bigger
2. Turbo
- Thinking like a t25 from an sr20 or something (internally wastegated) quick spool time, dont need a lot of boost
3. Fuel modifications
- Vortech FMU (dont know what ratio. Suggestions?) still learning about these. Would this control my fuel completely? Or would still need to get some form of electronic fuel management and have it tuned?
- 1.8 injectors (would the fmu be able to manage these %100 of the time? Or would I need to get some form of piggyback to help idle conditions?)
- larger fuel pump (something that is pnp)
4. Intercooler setup
- I would want to make this very simple. Something like this guys:

5. Coolant and oil lines:
- oil feed: thinking a sandwich plate or something of that sort
- oil return - would like to avoid drilling into oil pan if possible. I would like to make this kit pnp and easily removable if needed. Suggestions? Or am I stuck?
- coolant feed and return: i read on miataturbo.net that the miata has two water lines that can be tapped into easily. Perfect for this
6. Monitoring
- wideband afr gauge (already have the aem uego)
- boost gauge (already have this as well)

Alright, please let me know what you think. I have my flame suit on. Is there anything else to consider? Like motor mounts, catch can setups, upgraded fprs, ect. I hope I didnt forget anything. Thanks aheah of time for suggestions
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:58 AM   #2
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Forget 3 completely. Megasquirt plus larger injectors, done.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:09 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post


Forget 3 completely. Megasquirt plus larger injectors, done.
+1 for this. The general consensus is Megasquirt is 10x better than bandaids for not much more money.

Manifold/DP/Intercooler setup would probably be best sourced from the classifieds section, or DIY.

Oil lines can be had from JGS http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/index2.html
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:17 AM   #4
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Haha alright, so fmu setups out, spend the extra $$ and go full standalone and call it a day?

I mainly just want to avoid the tuning aspect. My knowledge is still to limited to tune electronically with any software right now and would like to avoid paying a dyno to do it for me
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:21 AM   #5
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Tuning is critical. If you cant afford to properly tune it, you cant afford to turbo it.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:29 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
Tuning is critical. If you cant afford to properly tune it, you cant afford to turbo it.
I understand the tuning aspect %100. trust me on that. My first turbo build i went through three different piggybacks before I was comfortable enough to get it professionally tuned
(edit: thats main reason why i am avoiding the electronic fuel management route. My previous project left a bad taste in my mouth. If I were to go in that direction, it would be full stand alone only. If i can use a very simple setup that is still well composed that is all mechanically controlled, I would love to go that route)


My knowledge is limited when it comes to fmu's and how they work, i guess. They seem like a simple way of maintaining boost without getting too deep into making/editing fuel maps or anything that the ecu directly sees. Can you or someone shed more light onto them?

Last edited by Caconman424; 06-27-2012 at 03:47 AM.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:47 AM   #7
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Full_tilt said it. I wish I had someone to tell me not to bother with bandaids and go straight to MS. But by the sound of things MS might be a little much for you right now. There's a learning curve and if FMUs are throwing you for a loop you may be in over your head. You need to read the diy faq sticky. Jumping in without knowing what you're doing is going to net you a blown motor and a bad day.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caconman424 View Post
I mainly just want to avoid the tuning aspect.
Then you probably want to avoid the turbo aspect too. We build cars that are well-tuned and powerful here, and FMUs have no place on well-assembled turbocharged Miatas.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:15 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rccote View Post
Full_tilt said it. I wish I had someone to tell me not to bother with bandaids and go straight to MS. But by the sound of things MS might be a little much for you right now. There's a learning curve and if FMUs are throwing you for a loop you may be in over your head. You need to read the diy faq sticky. Jumping in without knowing what you're doing is going to net you a blown motor and a bad day.
Already read. Twice actually. They arent exactly "throwing me through a loop" but more of I have never used one nor have very much info on them. They are still very new to me. Saying that im "jumping in with out knowing what im doing" i feel is an overstatement. I have an idea, actually a pretty good one. I would like to avoid hassle of fine tuning. I imagine anyone who has had to put in the time and effort to do so, will agree, its not an easy process, niether is turbocharging in the big picture. I would by no means consider myself a novice, except for the knowledge of more primitive fuel management systems.
Please do not underestimate me and my "learning curve." i know exactly what to do with a stand alone unit. I can promise you that.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:19 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Then you probably want to avoid the turbo aspect too. We build cars that are well-tuned and powerful here, and FMUs have no place on well-assembled turbocharged Miatas.
Then I guess I regret asking the question. Again, my knowledge on FMU's is limited. I have seen a few setups on miatas that incorporate them, and wanted to see if they are effiecient or not. This thread and has more than answered that. I am not looking for a "well tuned and powerful" miata. I unfortunately do not have the expendable income to support that. I seek simplicity. :/
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:22 AM   #11
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Boost enters intake manifold, exits (beyond the intake valves) into a vacuum nipple, through a vacuum hose, and into the FMU, where it pushes on a rubber disc. The more boost your turbo makes, the more it pushes on the disc. On the back of the disc is a valve that essentially pinches off the return line from the stock fuel pressure regulator. The stock fpr is designed to increase fuel pressure when the return line is pinched. So, long story short, the Afpr increase fuel pressure while boost increases.

They very temperamental, they don't effect timing, they don't do anything to change the amount of fuel delivered at idle (which is why you can't run larger injectors with an Afpr) and they usually require an upgraded fuel pump.

MS does all these things, and doesn't require a fuel pump.

Don't use piggy backs.

Also, don't reinvent the wheel with oil drains, drill your pan. There is a spot to use without drilling, but it's below the intake manifold. So the drain hose has to go around the engine with a constant downward angle. Big pain in the ***
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:26 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Boost enters intake manifold, exits (beyond the intake valves) into a vacuum nipple, through a vacuum hose, and into the FMU, where it pushes on a rubber disc. The more boost your turbo makes, the more it pushes on the disc. On the back of the disc is a valve that essentially pinches off the return line from the stock fuel pressure regulator. The stock fpr is designed to increase fuel pressure when the return line is pinched. So, long story short, the Afpr increase fuel pressure while boost increases.

They very temperamental, they don't effect timing, they don't do anything to change the amount of fuel delivered at idle (which is why you can't run larger injectors with an Afpr) and they usually require an upgraded fuel pump.

MS does all these things, and doesn't require a fuel pump.

Don't use piggy backs.

Also, don't reinvent the wheel with oil drains, drill your pan. There is a spot to use without drilling, but it's below the intake manifold. So the drain hose has to go around the engine with a constant downward angle. Big pain in the ***
Thank you for the relevant tip. If i dont go the fmu route, full stand alone is the next route
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Old 06-27-2012, 08:23 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post

Don't use piggy backs.
This is the consensus here and for good reason!

I plan to go stand alone in the near future so I can use bigger injectors, fire COPs and run multiple tunes etc...

If you do find yourself for whatever reason running a piggy back then all is not lost imo, particularly in a low boost dd with the right setup.

I have been running an EMB with a vtec triggered O2 clamp and tps/narrowband autotune for 6 months and it performs perfectly well and consistently at 7 psi.
Quote:
https://www.miataturbo.net/showthread.php?t=65812

90% my dd car is buried deep in vacuum where the stock ecu does the excellent job it was designed to do.

The other 10% of the time the EMB retards spark relative to boost pressure and adds fuel to maintain a specified AFR (12.5) through lambda error corrected additional injection. Perceptively, the car has never missed a beat which is also verified by WB and data logs . The temperatures have gone from -10 to plus 35 degC and I have used a bunch of fuel from 93 to 100 octane. The initial setup is simple and no dyno time is needed.
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Old 06-27-2012, 08:37 AM   #14
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1.8L injectors, FMU, fuel pump...


we have declined back into circa 1996.
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Old 06-27-2012, 09:14 AM   #15
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I like how the valve-cover vent goes straight to the pressurized piping with no one-way valve:
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Old 06-27-2012, 09:39 AM   #16
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ha, never noticed that. lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Old 06-27-2012, 09:45 AM   #17
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LOL, I missed that too. Awesome
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Old 06-27-2012, 10:06 AM   #18
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did you expect anything less from clubricer?

don't hate: maybe he likes his oil vapors pressurized
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Old 06-27-2012, 12:28 PM   #19
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Side note: the only reason you think that's a simple system is because you can see all of it.

I replaced my crappy over the radiator setup for a much better flowing around the radiator setup without adding any extra couplers.
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Old 06-27-2012, 12:31 PM   #20
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+1. In fact, with the over I was always re-adjusting and tightening couplers, with the traditional setup never had one pop off ever,
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