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DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

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Old 12-01-2014, 07:52 AM   #21
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It takes a few hours max. I also swap my exhaust to add a cat. It was much easier when i had a 94-97 intake manifold because its quicker to change out injectors. The biggest issues I have had are mostly non turbo related:

Blocked EGR Causing readiness not to pass (back when I left my block off plate on)
Clogged EGR causing readiness not to pass (removed and cleaned it)
faulty o2 sensors and o2 sensor wiring
BOV leak causing VERY LEAN running conditions because the leak was after the MAF

Get a good OBD scanner that can read readiness codes AND sensor readings like o2.
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Old 12-01-2014, 12:17 PM   #22
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Why are you guys swapping O2 sensors. Cant you just emulate narrowband?
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Old 12-01-2014, 12:31 PM   #23
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Expect to spend a weekend removing everything. Then driving a few days on the stock system, and then test during the week. The following weekend reinstall everything.
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Old 12-01-2014, 02:03 PM   #24
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This seems doable.
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Old 12-01-2014, 05:13 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Why are you guys swapping O2 sensors. Cant you just emulate narrowband?
I have emulated the front one and just left the stock plugged in for the heater, but I was fighting readiness codes last time and wasn't sure if it was due to the o2 (also had falty wiring in stock harness) so I just found it better to swap to stock 100%. And i usually dont have my rear o2 installed so I add that

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Expect to spend a weekend removing everything. Then driving a few days on the stock system, and then test during the week. The following weekend reinstall everything.
THIS. Oh and if readiness doesn't pass in a few heat cycles and driving conditions then you probably have an issue. Nothing clears before EGR...so clean and check that FIRST. Ask me how I know....
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Old 12-01-2014, 05:57 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Guy Farting View Post
we have to pass visual for stock smog equipment, tail pipe test, CEL needs to be off and OBD2 will be hooked to the smog machine to verify readiness. Its utah and we have to test every year.
I found the OBD2 test procedures from the gov website but it seems to simple. It seems to suggest my wont need a tail pipe test which may or may not be true.
http://www.utahcounty.gov/apps/WebLi...011final_1.pdf
Sounds like you've got basically the same standards and test procedure as most other states which aren't California.




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is the xede system that also uses the stock ecu and give obd2 compliance does it pass inspection?
Yes. The XEDE retains the stock ECU, and modifies the signals going into it. In this way, it's a bit like the old Greddy E-Manage Blue (and, in my opinion, inferior to the Emanage Ultimate, which modifies the injector signals post-ECU, rather than diddling the AFM signal pre-ECU). As such, the OBD2 system is not interfered with in any way, and if the vehicle is properly tuned (and was capable of passing an OBD2 test before the XEDE is installed) than it should have no problem passing afterwards.

While the general consensus opinion here at MT is that MegaSquirt 3 > * (and I have personally owned several Megasquirts including an MS3Pro), I must admit that the apparent simplicity of leaving the stock ECU in place to manage the things which it's good at, and adding an external signal modifier to adjust fuel and ignition timing as appropriate, does have some appeal to me. I just wish that there were a better implementation of it available today.



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does it suck froma performance view? it sure is expensive.
It sucks less than pouring radiator stop-leak into your oil pan, if that's what you mean.

I've never actually used one, nor heard direct feedback from anyone who has. The dyno charts which Bell show on their website certainly seem reasonable for the configurations described, and impact on out-of-boost performance should be extremely minor.
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:38 PM   #27
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Why would I pour stop leak into my oil pan?

Thanks for your help!

I think I will just get a plug and play megasquirt $795 vs $1495
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Old 12-02-2014, 10:04 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Guy Farting View Post
Why would I pour stop leak into my oil pan?
Inside joke.

A few years ago, there was some guy on here who thought he had a leaking head gasket. He went to the auto parts store and bought a bottle of some miracle product which claims to fix such things. Despite the fact that the label on the product said to pour it into the radiator, he poured it into the oil.

As the product contained a large amount of suspended particulate matter designed to dissolve in water, it blocked the oil pickup screen and resulted in the nearly immediate destruction of the engine.

Unaware of the fact that he had ignored the instructions on the label, he started a thread here to the effect of "Beware, this product destroyed my engine," whereupon we all proceeded to point out the fact that he's misused the product and was responsible for his own engine failure.

It was funnier if you read the whole thread. I can't find a link anymore.
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Old 12-02-2014, 10:32 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 240_to_miata View Post

Blocked EGR Causing readiness not to pass (back when I left my block off plate on)
Clogged EGR causing readiness not to pass (removed and cleaned it)
faulty o2 sensors and o2 sensor wiring
BOV leak causing VERY LEAN running conditions because the leak was after the MAF
was the valve sticking? or does the system meter exhaust gas entering the intake?
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Old 12-02-2014, 10:33 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Inside joke.

A few years ago, there was some guy on here who thought he had a leaking head gasket. He went to the auto parts store and bought a bottle of some miracle product which claims to fix such things. Despite the fact that the label on the product said to pour it into the radiator, he poured it into the oil.

As the product contained a large amount of suspended particulate matter designed to dissolve in water, it blocked the oil pickup screen and resulted in the nearly immediate destruction of the engine.

Unaware of the fact that he had ignored the instructions on the label, he started a thread here to the effect of "Beware, this product destroyed my engine," whereupon we all proceeded to point out the fact that he's misused the product and was responsible for his own engine failure.

It was funnier if you read the whole thread. I can't find a link anymore.

Search, n00b.



https://www.miataturbo.net/insert-bs...st-read-21521/

I actually got a PM from Mouglie just a couple days ago asking me about turning up his boost


....To add to the Emanage/Xede post - keep in mind that while its cool for that 1 day every 2 years, you are then left with two systems which are trying to trick each other or fight each other all the time, and you are also left with a bunch of junk that you have to work around (egr, solenoids, sensors, all of which throw a code as soon as you exceed a threshold), and a bunch of limitations (the maf getting maxed out, injector size limitations, etc). Its really not all as peachy as the bandaids users will have you believe, and definitely not as great as some companies will fool you into thinking.

Megasquirt isn't all peachy either. There is a steep learning curve, there are a ton of different versions and a ton of conflicting documentation, and it takes quite a bit of time to set it up to run just as smooth as OEM. Once you "get it" though, it's not even a comparison with AIDZ.

Last edited by 18psi; 12-02-2014 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 12-02-2014, 01:13 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Inside joke.

A few years ago, there was some guy on here who thought he had a leaking head gasket. He went to the auto parts store and bought a bottle of some miracle product which claims to fix such things. Despite the fact that the label on the product said to pour it into the radiator, he poured it into the oil.

As the product contained a large amount of suspended particulate matter designed to dissolve in water, it blocked the oil pickup screen and resulted in the nearly immediate destruction of the engine.

Unaware of the fact that he had ignored the instructions on the label, he started a thread here to the effect of "Beware, this product destroyed my engine," whereupon we all proceeded to point out the fact that he's misused the product and was responsible for his own engine failure.




It was funnier if you read the whole thread. I can't find a link anymore.
I hate those chemicals it seems they have one for every mechanical problem. they should be boycotted and parts stores that sell them too any part store that sells them should not have business and not be taken seriously. I am suprised they dont have one for broken rods or cracked block. people who use that stuff are those who buy those miracle fuel magnets hoping to get 100mpg. pouring it in the oil and not reading the intructions is hilarious and sad.
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Old 12-02-2014, 01:17 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Guy Farting View Post
I hate those chemicals it seems they have one for every mechanical problem. they should be boycotted and parts stores that sell them too any part store that sells them should not have business and not be taken seriously. I am suprised they dont have one for broken rods or cracked block. people who use that stuff are those who buy those miracle fuel magnets hoping to get 100mpg. pouring it in the oil and not reading the intructions is hilarious and sad.

Wut.
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Old 12-02-2014, 01:19 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Search, n00b.



https://www.miataturbo.net/insert-bs...st-read-21521/

I actually got a PM from Mouglie just a couple days ago asking me about turning up his boost


....To add to the Emanage/Xede post - keep in mind that while its cool for that 1 day every 2 years, you are then left with two systems which are trying to trick each other or fight each other all the time, and you are also left with a bunch of junk that you have to work around (egr, solenoids, sensors, all of which throw a code as soon as you exceed a threshold), and a bunch of limitations (the maf getting maxed out, injector size limitations, etc). Its really not all as peachy as the bandaids users will have you believe, and definitely not as great as some companies will fool you into thinking.

Megasquirt isn't all peachy either. There is a steep learning curve, there are a ton of different versions and a ton of conflicting documentation, and it takes quite a bit of time to set it up to run just as smooth as OEM. Once you "get it" though, it's not even a comparison with AIDZ.
thats why I am suprised there arent more people running a haltech or aem from established companies and better guides and manuals and documentation. or even Fast and other efi used in muscle cars and drag cars.
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Old 12-02-2014, 01:19 PM   #34
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If Megasquirt is hard, then don't expect an AEM or Haltech to be easy.
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Old 12-02-2014, 01:21 PM   #35
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Exactly.

You pay twice the money, and unless you know "the guru" for those you are stuck with even less support and help and documentation than MS.
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Old 12-02-2014, 01:59 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
That's the one.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
....To add to the Emanage/Xede post - keep in mind that while its cool for that 1 day every 2 years, you are then left with two systems which are trying to trick each other or fight each other all the time, and you are also left with a bunch of junk that you have to work around (egr, solenoids, sensors, all of which throw a code as soon as you exceed a threshold), and a bunch of limitations (the maf getting maxed out, injector size limitations, etc). Its really not all as peachy as the bandaids users will have you believe, and definitely not as great as some companies will fool you into thinking.
I've had this idea rolling around in my head for a while now... It's a new software build which runs on the MS3X hardware and performs a function similar to the old EMU. Takes in the injector pulses and trims them, takes in the ignition signals and delays them / performs dwell correction, takes in the primary NB02 signal and outputs a "clamped" version of it, etc.

Basically the same functionality as the XEDE, but trimming the outputs rather than the inputs. When you tweak the MAF signal, you're changing more than just fuel duration.




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Originally Posted by Guy Farting View Post
I am suprised they dont have one for broken rods or cracked block.
Sounds like a business opportunity.



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Originally Posted by Guy Farting View Post
thats why I am suprised there arent more people running a haltech or aem from established companies and better guides and manuals and documentation. or even Fast and other efi used in muscle cars and drag cars.
Well, Flyin' Miata historically repped the Link family of ECUs, and nowadays they sell the Hydra Nemssis. TrackSpeed and a couple of others sell the AEM EMS. And the PowerCard devices are used by the two major Supercharger vendors.

In general, we Miata folk tend to lean more towards the cheapskate / DIY end of the automotive aftermarket, and DIYAutoTune was quick to embrace the platform years ago with the Megasquirt ECUs. That's just how things settled out...

But at the end of the day, it's really down to what Concealer and 18 have said. Engine tuning is hard, and there's really no single ECU product which is significantly better-performing or easier to use than the rest. It's mostly a matter of what ECU happens to be recommended by whatever vendor you're dealing with for related parts, what ECU is most popular with your local enthusiast community (and thus supported by a knowledgebase), and so on.
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Old 12-02-2014, 02:01 PM   #37
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You know what else is used a lot in drag cars and muscle cars?



Carbs.
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Old 12-02-2014, 02:12 PM   #38
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You know what else is used a lot in drag cars and muscle cars?



Carbs.
So I think you are saying we should all install Carb's on our miatas?
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Old 12-02-2014, 02:14 PM   #39
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So I think you are saying we should all install Carb's on our miatas?

It's well-supported, so it's obviously better, right? We should strive to rid ourselves of the Megasquirt ball and chains, and use what the muscle and drag cars use.
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Old 12-02-2014, 03:11 PM   #40
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If Megasquirt is hard, then don't expect an AEM or Haltech to be easy.
I never said a megasquirt was hard.
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