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Old 03-14-2007, 09:53 PM   #1
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Default What power levels before bottom end fails?

Basically, Im planning for FI in the future. Im doing a current build on my subaru legacy wagon (super sleeper) and Im finding the miata feels slower than my 3000lb wagon that has a 200k motor and only 4 lbs of boost (the new motor will hopefully hold 15lbs).

What type of power can I run before the bottom end fails, and what turbo does that translate to? For instance, if I ran a 50 trim t3 with a .48 a/r, how do you think that would perform?

Im also thinking about engine management now, but I REALLY dont want to go standalone. Anyone offer full plug and play systems other than link?

Danny
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Old 03-14-2007, 09:58 PM   #2
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With good tuning and hard parts, 300whp for a reasonable amount of time (i.e., not on borrowed time). That's the really top end of a T3 S60's efficiency. For short periods I think someone's done 400whp before it went.
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Old 03-14-2007, 10:02 PM   #3
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The motors seem to be comfortable until somewhere around 300, but the 5 spd tranny is only reliable to 250.
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Old 03-14-2007, 11:07 PM   #4
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Depends on tuning and what size turbo you run.

300whp out of a T28 will put more stress on the engine than 300 out of a t3/t04e 57 trim. Of course you need enough compressor for 300, but you also dont want to run too small a turbine either.

Running the stock fuel rail will put more stress on the engine than an aftermarket one. You run lean in the back cylinder and rich in the front one. A vishnu rail or similar evens the fueling out.

Run EGT and wideband, they are cheaper than pistons. High EGTs will hurt your turbine wheel, damage valves and pistons.

Running a TEC3 with those nice jumbo sparks will go a long way towards making big power at lower psi.
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Old 03-15-2007, 12:43 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by gto7419 View Post
For instance, if I ran a 50 trim t3 with a .48 a/r, how do you think that would perform?
great.
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:49 AM   #6
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Depends on tuning and what size turbo you run.

300whp out of a T28 will put more stress on the engine than 300 out of a t3/t04e 57 trim. Of course you need enough compressor for 300, but you also dont want to run too small a turbine either.

Running the stock fuel rail will put more stress on the engine than an aftermarket one. You run lean in the back cylinder and rich in the front one. A vishnu rail or similar evens the fueling out.

Run EGT and wideband, they are cheaper than pistons. High EGTs will hurt your turbine wheel, damage valves and pistons.

Running a TEC3 with those nice jumbo sparks will go a long way towards making big power at lower psi.
I think I remember a few people modding the stock fuel rail to take fuel from the rear/front/middle which helped the leaning condition in #4.

Im also seriously considering buying a larger turbo for the subaru and using the t3 I have on the miata. For ~170 a turbo though, Im not really worried....

Im DEFINATELY going to run egt, boost, and wideband. Probably also oil pressure...

Im going to have to read up on the tec3 - I dont know much about it.

Im going to use an msd dis2 on the legacy with a safcII and a j&s safeguard ultra.


Just curious why the t28 would put more pressure on the motor than a t3t4???

Danny
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:57 AM   #7
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wow, you're a big ***.
yeah! I like to take it in the ***, thanks.
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Old 03-15-2007, 09:41 AM   #8
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that sounded sincere to me, both in delivery, logic and experience
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Old 03-15-2007, 09:43 AM   #9
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yeah! I like to take it in the ***, thanks.

It also looks like you dont know how to read and see that, I am in fact utilizing a T3.
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Old 03-15-2007, 03:40 PM   #10
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I think a 50 trim t3 would be really stretched to hit 300whp.

I think a T3/T04E .50 with a .48 stage 3 or a .63 stage 1 would hit 300 easily and probably lots more if you wanted. A T04B S trim is pretty much bare minimum for hitting 300whp imo.

The straight T3s can do it, but it isnt _easy_ on a stock engine. There are a bunch of T25 based turbos that can do it too, but they are more pricey due to rarity and being GT series.
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Old 03-15-2007, 11:35 PM   #11
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It also looks like you dont know how to read and see that, I am in fact utilizing a T3.


I was just teasing... Relax
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Old 03-15-2007, 11:39 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by beerslurpy View Post
I think a 50 trim t3 would be really stretched to hit 300whp.

I think a T3/T04E .50 with a .48 stage 3 or a .63 stage 1 would hit 300 easily and probably lots more if you wanted. A T04B S trim is pretty much bare minimum for hitting 300whp imo.

The straight T3s can do it, but it isnt _easy_ on a stock engine. There are a bunch of T25 based turbos that can do it too, but they are more pricey due to rarity and being GT series.
I see those cheap $170 t3t4 turbos on ebay all the time - .50 trim .63 a/r. Would something like that be what you are describing?
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Old 03-16-2007, 10:27 AM   #13
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Just like Markp is running check out his setup he made almost 300 whp with a ebay turbo and SS autochrome manifold.
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Old 03-16-2007, 11:18 AM   #14
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It appears his turbo is a 50 trim .63 a/r. From what Ive read it spools pretty late and he is running on a built bottom end. I dont have 8k rpm to spin that thing, so Im thinking about a slightly smaller turbo. I would like to end up somewhere between 240whp and 260whp but closer to 260.

Ive been reading through a lot of posts and I cant seem to find a single manifold that there havent been reports of cracking on.

I need to save up for a few more months and make sure the subaru is running - then the collection begins for the miata.
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Old 03-16-2007, 11:22 AM   #15
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It is just an example of what is being done, with so called inferior technology man.
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Old 03-16-2007, 11:32 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gto7419 View Post
Ive been reading through a lot of posts and I cant seem to find a single manifold that there havent been reports of cracking on.
only one BEGi manifold has ever been reported cracked, and it was due to other contributing factors. That being said, they make one with a T3 flange. Slap a T3 Super 60, smaller t3/t4, GT30R on there and you'll make your goals easy.

Even the T2 flange with a GT25, GT28R, T28, etc could make 260rwhp.

FWIW, I'm making 200 at the wheels with a restirctive exhaust and no engine management. change that, add a few psi and that goal could be surpassed.
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