Where did all the Borg Warner EFRs go?
 

I've been searching for a vendor that has a 6258 in stock. So far, I'm on two waiting lists. Many of the vendor websites say "In stock" but have none when I call them. Anyone know of a place that still has them?

Check www.Himniracing.com

They seem to have them in stock. No one has them because it's being realized by many that the EFR is with out a doubt the best turbo on the market. Garrett is probably shitting their pants right now because their GTX is getting destroyed.

Ari they don't actually exist. BW made like 6 to show off and then stopped production.

Fixed.

We have one for development, but it took a while to find. Their supply chain should be up to speed by the time our kits are released next year, though.

Didn't your company kill off all them people in India not to long ago?

Try contacting http://www.theboostlab.com/ , I know they had some in stock a while ago, they were posting pictures of them on fb.

They had some production fuck up.

Thanks for the responses, so far I'm waiting to hear back from Himniracing and theboostlab is out of stock until approx February of next year.

Savington, any info on your kits? Specs?

The only specs on Savington's TSE kit is that it is BAD ASS. At least from what I have heard.

EFR cat:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1321474815

+1
More information will be released once we get the entire kit sorted out.

That looks to be a gt30 sized cat

Kitty sez, I haz EFR!!!!111


That is a 6258? All of the pics of the 6258 that I have seen have the anti-surge on the inlet and the boost controller.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1321480215


This is true, I was told it was resolved.


Edit: Fullrace has updated their photo...

http://www.full-race.com/store/image...58-turbo-0.jpg

Yep, 6258

Woohoo!! I just got lucky and got one from Fullrace. I called and they said they come in sporadically. I got on the waiting list and received an email shortly after telling me one is arriving tomorrow.

So wait, TSE is making their own kit? That sounds like WIN-RAR.
If it doesn't cost a metric shitton (which in the stingy miata community is a very vague term, I know this), its going to put a serious hurting on FM and BEGi

After reading through the BW description I think those EFR turbos are ultra sexy. It makes me want to build another turbo car just so I can use one. I hope Garrett is defecating in their trousers; they need some more competition (other than the Chinachargers).

I want EFR, I may go airwerks as a stop gap but perhaps the EFRs will be available when I am ready to buy the turbo towards the spring.

EDIT: AND +20e343 on Trackspeed's turbo kit.

This is an open letter to Garrett, feel free to ship me a GTX2863 and I will get my kitty to pose with it.

I'd still rather have a turbo without the wastegate and BOV integrated. I've never had an IWG that worked to my liking and I don't like the idea of those plastic parts so close to hot exhaust.

Pricing will be on par with what's currently on the market. Component selection won't be. ;)

Our goal from the start has been to design and build a turbo kit that can be bolted onto a track car and driven at 10/10ths without changing a single part. We don't think that privateers and hobbyists should be wasting their time doing R&D on their track toy - that's our job. This community needs a kit that will work flawlessly right out of the box - IMO that kit doesn't exist today.

Remember ~3 years ago when turbo shops said things like "your manifold/turbine hardware won't stretch", "no one cracks/warps iron manifolds", or "queer me up with your poz load"? Those were sad times.

moar epic winsous


let me know if you need a prototype dummy:D

The IWG has worked flawlessly for me, and everyone else that is running an efr according to raffi at full race. Also, Full race claims the plastic piece is pretty fragile, and they have a billet plate that replaces it which has a 1/8 npt hole for either stainless line or a barb. I have the block off plate with a hose barb.

The integrated BOV works flawlessly.

This turbo has lived up to all the hype. I am extremely busy right now, and my car still isn't tuned perfectly, but I am fully spooled (10 psi) before 3000 rpms. Once borg fixes their casting problem and replenishes the market garrett is going to have a serious problem.

Hum sounds like more reason to wait on turboing the 99

My ported IWG worked just fine on my GT2871 making 320 RWHP. No boost creep, really stable.

My ported IWG did have about 2-3psi worth of creep but only in 4th/5th, which with a built engine and corn, I didn't mind at all:giggle:

Here's the backside of the EFR turbine:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1321511455

That huge cavity below the flapper is a low-pressure zone to promote wastegate flow. The wall around the turbine wheel is also lifted up off the back of the housing by 5-6mm, which creates a low-pressure zone around the entire housing. That low-pressure zone will draw wastegate gases in and blend them with the gases exiting the turbine wheel.

The design of the flapper angle and cavity in the housing mean that the EFR's IWG will outperform a TiAL EWG, and it will decimate any Garrett IWG. If we thought that an EWG would be superior, we'd use one.

This is a Honda K20 test done by Full-Race, with a GT3582R .82a/r single-scroll (purple line) vs. an EFR8374 .83a/r single-scroll, both at 15psi on 91 octane. The GT35R had a TiAL 44mm EWG, the EFR8374 had a 42mm IWG. Check out the boost curve - the TiAL 44mm creeps up top, but the EFR is rock solid all the way to redline. The K20 is notorious for having incredibly high VE at high RPM which causes boost creep, and the EFR's internal gate has no problem keeping it under control.

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2889919

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1321511455

I'll post some more detailed photos of the turbo as we go forward. Needless to say, this turbo has an enormous amount of thought put into places that you've never given a second glance to before. Our kits will have that same attention to detail.

This is correct, I'm currently learning from the hardcore racers what works and what doesn't to build my own setup as many have before me. I'd guess this is whats also driving begi to make the "mojo" system. There is a big difference between street systems and track systems.

BEGi has been building turbo kits for Miatas for over a decade. I don't know what the mojo kit will be, but expecting them to suddenly come up with a system that works on the track is a little far-fetched, IMO. If they had that capability, they would have done it a long time ago.

Think about the companies that have produced game-changing parts in the last 5 years. The 6UL has become the gold standard motorsport wheel for Miatas, but 5 years ago it was an idea in Emilio's head. His frustrations from being unable to buy the parts he wanted for his own track car spawned the 8" 6UL, then the 9" 6UL, and now the 10" 6UL. The rigors of regular competitive motorsport provide the kind of environment that quality parts come from.

If you aren't testing your products by bolting them to a race car and beating the snot out of it, you're going to end up with egg on your face when one of your customers goes out and does it (with sub-par results). I know this first-hand - I've spent the better part of 4 years being that customer.

I don't think that difference is as big as people make it out to be. You can certainly get away with using lower-grade components in a street car, but I don't think that's acceptable. The same high-quality parts that will make our kits reliable and fast on the track will provide unparalleled low-end torque, response, and efficiency on the street. Thousands of people take their turbocharged street cars to the track every weekend - there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to purchase a turbo kit for a Miata and do exactly the same thing (assuming the rest of your car is up to the task).

^This is why I'm willing to spend the cash to send my motor to you. When the cash fairy takes a huge dump in my wallet, you'll get my babies guts. <meant in a good way, just got married and living on military disability doesn't help buy motors.

I own 1 of the 6.. just sayin. :P

This is what makes the difference. Stop light street racers don't submit their cars to extended boost sessions. I remember the FM install instructions mentioning to limit the time under full boost to avoid damage. That is one thing a racer on a track will not do.

^^ That wastegate design is fantastic. There is no need or reason I can see for a separated gases downpipe with that design. Between that, and the v-band fitting, it makes the downpipe super simple to fabricate without buying a v-band adapter. And the flow is still better anyway. Very nice. That is another big pro for the DIY customers.

I have full confidence in your current and future products.

How many track hours do you typically put on component(s) such as those found in your turbo kit before feeling confident in their durability? What is your tentative schedule to fully track test the EFR's before you release the kit? I hate spreading them, but internet rumor is the EFR Ti-AL wheel + sustained track temps = higher risk of :vash: :burncash: :ky: compared to traditional turbine technology.

Could you post some links to these rumors you are hearing? What exactly are you hearing also? I did not know Tial was making anything for the EFR turbos.

The rumor I heard was that they had a few issues with the early wheels shattering while being used with anti-lag. They redesigned the wheel and beefed it up a bit and haven't had any issues AFAIK.

the TI-Al hes talking about is the alloy of the turbine wheel, not tial the company.

Raffi from full race told me that i should take it easy on the turbo during my first start, because the wheel is fragile at first, but as it is used over and over again and heat cycled, it gains strength.

I was given this thread to read, but I have not yet. I don't know what it says but supposedly the EFR came apart after 10 laps. I'll read it once I get the time.
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-dyn...yno-graph.html

And as was said earlier, EFR's turbine alloy is Titanium-Aluminum stuff.

Cliffs:

-Big power E85 Evo w/ cams and a 7670 has shitty response on dyno
-Goes to track, shaft bends, damages compressor wheel, turbine blades are chipped
-Shop owner pulls his personal 7670 off his DD, sells to customer, installs
-Customer takes car to SLB and grenades the motor in 10 laps (melted spark plugs)

At the very end of the thread, the theories being throws out are that the first turbo was damaged from the factory, or from a previously damaged engine, or it ingested something which chipped the turbine blades and bent the shaft.

The replacement turbo spools significantly quicker. The customer takes the car to the track, where it promptly uses un-used portions of the map and significantly increased airflow levels to run itself lean and blow the new motor up.

They are still waiting for word from BW on the first turbo. With more experience using EFRs, the tuner may have caught the poor spool-up earlier, but everyone is still gathering data on what these things are supposed to do in various applications.

I'm still confident that the 6258 will perform as expected (a.k.a. better than everything else on the market today).

My car has grown up a bit since you've seen it with ducting and hose wrap.

EFR's are titties.

People still whine about the T25 .64 housings on the EFR, but it's not the same as a Garrett. Same with the wastegates, they are serious business.

Here is a 6758 on a Cobalt using a stock exhaust manifold w/ adapter, stock head, stock intake manifold.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1316706409

Who is going to test it? Anyone worth a shit with a Miata in Texas is in TXMC barring Keith Verges, and none of us know of any testing. I wish them the best as I would any fellow, small business owning, capitalist Texan...I recommend they find someone who can drive to test it. If they want to pay my entree fee and provide a car, I'll do it (wink wink). The turbo Miata game changed over the last 2-years, we have a formula now. Once you guys start using Inco wire with Inco bolts on everything, you'll have my degree of success.
I remember when I called him up to request bronze and he was defiant...so I called him a few more times (drunk and two time-zones away) posing as another person requesting shit like bicycle wheels, trailer wheels, and Yugo fitment. I don't think he knows it was me, lol. I had a lot of free time on my hands back then.
+1 I've broken roughly $6k worth of parts.
I had this revelation a while ago. I consider the short list of companies who make reliable turbo parts to be ABSURDflow, Full Race, Twins Turbo, Boost Logic, and Active Autowerke. You can't get a 4-cylinder manifold from any of these guys for less than $1600. I've basically "raced" this car and driven it home about 30-times over the last three years and "needed" to take the turbo off once. If you offer me a $900 manifold/dp combo that I'll have to fuck with a dozen times per year vs Full Race priced, zero maintenance, I'll take the latter. I'll also remember this conversation if I ever order your turbo kit and I expect bro price or you'll get that safety-wire urethra probe with my purchase.

On a side note, TDR still tells people my car is unreliable and I work on it all the time, no matter how many superchargers or belts their cars throw. I recently heard that my turbocharger bent my exhaust valves. Maybe someone will see me drive it to and from the track every time and start putting two and two together.

lol @ 500lb/ft at 3500rpm. How the fuck does someone drive a FWD car with power like that? I made 480hp/tq in the Corrado and it was a death machine even in 6th. My arms hurt from wrestling the wheel after a night of highway racing.

I just spent half and hour reading that whole thread. The short version is as follows.

First motor with the EFR on it made a shitton of power and then the oil pump blew. He towed the car down to Buschur Racing to have them fix it and retune. They completely built a new motor and tuned the car. It spooled slightly slower and made slightly less power. He then took the car out on the track. The first 2 20min sessions went flawlessly. During the 3rd session the turbo died. The shaft bent in the EFR. Geoff at Fullrace hooked him up with his own personal EFR turbo so that he could take the evo back out on the track. The new motors spark plugs melted and engine is dead. David Bushur has said he will rebuild the motor and retune it for free. Car is currently being transported to David. First turbo is still at BW and being inspected.

Sweet! It was a blast when I last saw it. I hope to be racing with you in the future. :)

I just talked to a turbo guy about this an aparently they're having a tough time bonding the turbine to the shaft like the Mitsu VITME turbo. He believes the only way to make it work is a one-piece shaft, which I don't understand because I thought it was bolted together. He said it was probably not a good idea to buy one yet unless BW promises a real warranty in writing.

It has a 1 year warranty.. unfortunately in my case its almost been a year and my car still isn't running. I'm starting to consider letting someone break it in for me to find potential issues while i finish my car since the warranty is almost up...

He said the first run had problems and they're still working on the fix so I recommend you return it ASAP.

Where should i read up on these issues people are having? I just talked to Raffi and he said that the few people that had the issues did not break the turbo in correctly. (His version of break in was run at idle till operating engine temp then shut off and let cool till room temperature. Repeat 2 more times.) you would think they would heat treat the turbine in the factory so they would know the strength of their components out the door..

You probably won't read about it because the first "batch" was sent to the UK. You also won't hear q company vested in a product talk about flaws or difficulties. It's highly likely that anyone who's testing or developing these is bound by a non-disclosure agreement.

Alright seriously this sucks. ive got my DP made already for this turbo and if for some reason they would take it back, i have nothing to replace it with. I already have negative feelings toward full race and if for some reason this turbo takes a shit on me after 3 months of using it im going to shit a brick. i paid 1400$ for a turbo that they did all kinds of testing on before they started selling it because i expected it to not fail. otherwise i would have bought a china charger.. any supporting vendors want to weigh in on what i should do? Id like to hear your perspective.

Call up full race and ask them about the rumored bad batch that went to testing in the UK and all the turbos that failed on the Sierra Sierra car. Better yet, ask them in email if there was a design adjustment since you bought it. Then, break it and call an attorney.

All I am finding is that Sierra Sierra destroyed a lot of non-EFR turbos. Any updates about them destroying the EFR ones?

I like how the biggest money team keeps tearing up shit while the relatively low-budget FXMD team has great reliability.

Since when the fuck do you have to break in a turbo?

actually a friends turbo from precision came with break in instructions

There's another turbo company with an all-star reputation, lol.

The turbo arrived today. Fullrace even included a black anodized billet aluminum cover to replace the plastic one on the turbo.

Sorry for blurry pics (crappy camera).

Lucky you they made me pay extra for that cover. I just looked up my purchase date, so I need to start beating on the turbo and see if it breaks by 6/11/2012