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Old 03-06-2008, 09:49 PM   #1
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Default Wierd COP Problem - its eating me inside

I have to be the only one with this issue.

I still havent worked out my cranking settings, forget them for now. Its a bitch to start the car, takes like 5 tries.

I got a different issue. Once I do get the car started, no matter where the A/F ratio is, the car refuses to idle smoothly. It hunts for idle, up and down, up and down, runs rough, shakes, and it smells of fuel. During this phase I will periodically it gas to see if it changes anything, and nothing. BUT... At 160F, if I tap the gas every issue goes away and it idles dead ******* smooth. I go for a drive, its a DREAM. Turn the car off and it restarts beautifully.

BUT... For the past 3 nights from a cold start it would always start with the same story. I tried changing warmup enrichments on the fly, from 9:1 all the way to 15:1 and it still continues. I cant even pinpoint exactly the percentage I need for WUE because it fluctuates so much, I just change it from 100% - 150% in increments of 10 and look for change.

I did notice one thing, don't know if it helps. Once the car does start, if I look at the VE Table I see the green highlight sitting at 50KPA. I never really payed attention,but is that normal? I never really payed attention.

I dont know what it is, I have logs of the car running if you guys are interested.
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Old 03-06-2008, 11:39 PM   #2
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are they all sparking? are they firing in the correct order?
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Old 03-06-2008, 11:39 PM   #3
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So I am sitting thinking, maybe its a vacuum leak? But if it was, then wouldnt it have a shitty idle all the time. Also, since im running a MAP, theoretically a vacuum leak shouldn't affect me anyway.

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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
are they all sparking? are they firing in the correct order?
100% positive. The car runs flawlessly once warm. I even tested to make sure they all fire, once before installing them and then by pulling the plugs while the car was running. They have to be firing in the correct order because I plugged my factory coils in the same way with the same pairs and it ran. But if the pairs were wrong then it wouldnt run at all.

------

I got a great log of the warmup, and then *poof* all symptoms gone.

-----

At first I thought it was my spark plugs because I installed BKR6E, instead of the factory 5E when I fouled up my last ones. But... It runs perfectly with the factory coil pack, so that cant be the culprit.

Last edited by Saml01; 03-06-2008 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 03-06-2008, 11:50 PM   #4
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is it a specific time? like exactly30 seconds or something? then that would be the ASE enrichments.
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Old 03-06-2008, 11:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
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is it a specific time? like exactly30 seconds or something? then that would be the ASE enrichments.
The entire time until 160F is breached.
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Old 03-06-2008, 11:51 PM   #6
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post msq and log.
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Old 03-06-2008, 11:52 PM   #7
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At least yours spark on the gdamn car. :(
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Old 03-07-2008, 12:07 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
post msq and log.
Where can I host the Log? Its 700kb.

Last edited by Saml01; 03-07-2008 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 03-07-2008, 12:13 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
Could dwell be responsible? My Log reads 14.1V for Batt V. I know dwell is dependent on voltage. But that 14.1 could be because of the alternator charging.

Where can I host the Log? Its 700kb.
http://www.mediafire.com/
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Old 03-07-2008, 12:17 AM   #10
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Thanks

Most recent Log.

http://www.mediafire.com/?djttejdvi0j

I have a two more from previous days.

----------

Heres a stupid question. Does the TPS Tuning do anything to the MS or is it that strictly for me to see what the raw values are?

Last edited by Saml01; 03-07-2008 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 03-07-2008, 12:45 AM   #11
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Hmm, I looked at the log and nothing stands out to me. Post your MSQ. FWIW between 150-160 *F the problem goes away.
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Old 03-07-2008, 09:01 AM   #12
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Thanks, ill post the MSQ tonight. I would have done it last night but my laptop was in the car.

the worst thing about all this is just how the problem comes and goes. aside from the engine warming up, what happens around 160F? warmup shuts off is one, but i have isolated that as not the culprit.

3 logs with the same problem and it dissipates after 160. i am starting to think it may be the coils, but i have doubt because they either work or they dont, and if the cant work at warmup they most certainly wouldnt be able to work at 7000 RPM and they do. That and my old coils working flawlessley during warmup with the same msq.

Maybe i missed a setting. Aside from swapping in COPs, does anything have to be changed in the MSQ other then dwell?

I am just putting out whats has been going through my mind lately, hoping you guys could build on that.
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Old 03-07-2008, 10:23 AM   #13
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Had a thought.

How about timing? Right now my idle cells are 17 degrees. Maybe the coils have a hard time idling the car at that angle when cold? I dont see how but its a thought. But I dont know what affect angle would have on this problem seeing as how it idle at the same angle when hot just not when cold.

Theoretically, if the engine is cold the mixture needs more time to burn so angle could potentially cause a rough idle when cold.

Last edited by Saml01; 03-07-2008 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 03-07-2008, 07:09 PM   #14
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Old 03-08-2008, 01:03 PM   #15
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Anyone have a link to the original discussion about COP's, how you guys determined you need them and such and such?
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Old 03-10-2008, 12:32 AM   #16
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No thoughts? :(
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Old 03-10-2008, 01:47 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
Anyone have a link to the original discussion about COP's...
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/sho...ght=cop+thread
haha there is my contribution
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Old 03-10-2008, 10:00 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Didnt know that was the first thread.
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Old 03-10-2008, 11:00 AM   #19
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Heres a question.

Have you guys(with cops) ever had to change your spark setting or re do your timing after installing cops?

---------

So heres a thought I had this morning.

They say a lean fuel mixture requires more electrical voltage to ignite. My car has trouble idling, could that be attributed to a weak spark?

I mean I tried increasing the AF/R with no effect, but that could be due to the cold engine and it having a difficulty igniting it further.
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Old 03-10-2008, 08:43 PM   #20
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Its gotta be the coils hands down. They are just not firing as hard as they should. The car only runs with super lean mixtures and at that for 10 seconds at a time, and backfires with rich mixtures.

To get my car to run for 10 seconds, I had to turn off my afterstart encrichment completely and reduce my Warmup to practically nothing.
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