10psi Greddy Turbo
 

First run was 10psi, untuned. I didn't put the torque on it cause it was having issues with the RPM pickup, so the readings are either spikey or missing a big chunk of the line.

Attachment 210640

I was running 210whp/186tq.

I am now running 223whp/191tq thanks to some tuning.

Impressive numbers. Are you going to run any more boost?

Well, I am running the Walbro 190HP, so have to swap it out, cause it is maxed. I'll put in a 255HP and replace the wastegate actuator with one that will hold boost. It is dropping boost at 10psi. I should have the water injection kit in when we get all this stuff done, so I'll be shooting for 15-18psi next time around.

which injectors and FPR are you using ?

Huh? How do you figure you maxed out the walbro 190?

Because he needs more fuel supply a this injectors to support more than the 350BHP he's making.

injectors are just a means for fuel to enter the head, nothign to do with the amount of fuel injected. It's all the fuel pump, don't you know anything?

Nice numbers, could we get more details of your setup?
Exhaust your running?2.5 - 3?
intercooler size. injector size?

Looks like a goal of mine, where i want to be.

1.6 or 1.8?
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Post your timing map. Nice numbers. And more details on your setup please.

Last I checked, Greddy only made a 1.6L kit.

550cc injectors, and stock FPR.

See Below.

2.5" DP, 3" from the bellhousing back.

It's an ebay IC, don't remember the size, and too lazy to go measure. It works pretty well, which is really surprising.

1.6

CR Garage

It's the only site that hasn't deleted the garage and lost all my info.

I've never checked. I guess your saying its impossible to put on a 1.8?
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Sarcasm must not travel well through my cat5.

Could you post the basic specs HERE? And I didn't see your timing map anywhere.

Must not. The 190HP is maxed, I can't add any more fuel. We tried a 12psi run and it was too lean, so for more boost I need a 255HP. Remember, we are going for 11:1 AF, so maybe the 190 will work if I was running 12:1, or 12.5:1, but I'm not, so it's done.

I don't have the timing map. It's on the tuning laptop. I'm not gonna post it up even if I had it, I don't think that would be fair to my tuner, who has spent alot of time building it.

Basic specs:
Stock Engine
Unorthodox Racing Adj. Cam Gears
JVT Radiator
AEM EMS
Greddy Turbo Kit
2.5" Modified TurboTony DP
3" SS Exhaust
550cc Injectors
Tuner Toys Dual Feed Fuel Rail
AC/PS Removed
Greddy Oil
Motul Diff and Tranny fluid
Greddy Oil Relocation Kit
Oil Cooler
Custom FMIC (Ebay)

Something else is wrong.

I have a 190lph, 550s and I can run more boost on a larger turbo and run richer than 11s.

Your pump is designed to pump even more than mine (at higher psi at least) The pump isn't the problem.

Maybe you need to ditch the AEM for a real EMS? ;)

I run 11psi, 550's and a stock fuel pump and only hit a peak of 70%dc, that's aiming for 11.8:1 AFR

Something else is definitely wrong. The stock fuel pump is capable of supplying enough fuel for 300bhp with the correct sized injectors.

Or maybe the pump isn't working 100%? I got it used, and it has had alot of miles on it, and I am sure the high FPR I was running before I went to the EMS with larger injectors didn't help it any. So like I said before, it's done.

Again, you are assuming the pump is in perfect condition. No matter the reason, the fuel pump is maxed out.

Sucks.

FTL.. I would love to see this magical timing map. :bowrofl:

i ran the greddy @ 15psi with the 190hp fuel pump off the charts rich (<10:1)with 550cc(flowed 620cc) injectors at less than 80% duty cycle

What fuel pressure? Stock?

Again, datalogs don't lie....we added fuel, it didn't show on the A/F readings. We added again, still no change. That means there wasn't enough flow. That's the fuel pump. When we change it to a 255, we'll see if it goes away. If it is still having that issue, than I'll admit I was wrong. Until then I'm going with the guy with 14yrs experience, and he says the 190 is maxed out.

Cant blame you. The walbro 255 is cheaper than a good FPR, but I wonder if there is any relavence in that you're using an OEM FPR. Was fuel pressure checked in any way? Was the eom FPR replaced just in case? If your FPR isnt holding, then the 255 isnt going to help. I'm no expert with turbocharged Miatas by any stretch, I'm just trying to see the easiest and most logical solution first.

I'm looking forward to how this pans out either way.

Do you have a fuel pressure gauge? If your fuel pump was indeed maxed out your pressure would drop off.

I don't think there is any possible way you are maxing out a 190 unless it is failing.

That being said, these things are so cheap you may as well do what makes you happy.

Stock fuel pressure for myself... and I'm betting others.

If he says its maxed out... he's wrong. If he says its broken and not working right... that is possible.

You are simply NOT maxing it out.

If you are also just here to post numbers... and aren't really willing to show maps etc... why bother posting? We all contribute here to the general knowledge... its one of the ways that the builds have progressed out of the bandaid/12psi to not blow up phase of turbocharging miatas.

Hit the nail on the head. Crazy people come here and learn and ask questions and then turn around and refuse to share what they learned to others.

And agree about the F/P stuff too. It's broke :ne: It's maxed out.

yep stock pressure, i'm just thinking something is wrong, clogged fuel filter, weak voltage at the pump.....

Gotta love the super top secret timing map on the 225hp Miata.

You paid for the service of him writting your maps, it's your tune. It's not a disservice to him, hell you gave him credit here for it.
I dont see the need for keeping it a secret. We're just a bunch of enthusiasts with the same desire. Have you used any useful information from this site?

i'm taking my ball and going home!

I'm posting my dyno results cause I am trying to show that the AEM is a better standalone than the MS. The extra cost IS worth it. If someone wants to buy an AEM EMS, I'll be glad to send copies of the base tune so they can get it running the first try. I'll share the higher boost maps if needed, as well.

Wow...peer pressure approach. Good try.

It's 3/4 deg from knock.

I don't pay him. All work done on my car has been volunteered. So it is still HIS tune. He will not share it unless it is going with a new AEM EMS as a base map, since the AEM doesn't come with a base map for AFM removal.

Let me see, "useful info" from this site:

"Don't waste your money on an AEM, just get a MSPNP."
"Greddy kit sucks, just get a Begi instead."
"Haltech isn't any better than MS."
"Turbo Tony / RM downpipes are well made."

Only correct info I can think of that I got from this site was that the Greddy actuator can't hold boost over 8psi. It started having issues at 10psi for me.

Hell, want a good example of bad info, go read the compression ratio thread. How long has that been going on? I am sure there are still people who still think LC is better for making power on a low boost setup. Can't fix stupid, so I stopped trying.

Go read the thread with the dyno from me just running WG. How many pages before it was accepted that I can make that much power? Hell, I don't even think it was accepted, just was called plausible. Good example of how running crap like MS can make things seem impossible cause you have a GOOD standalone.

You're trying to prove the AEM is better than the MS with HP numbers that have been achieved on a stock ECU?

I don't think you're currently in a position to prove anything because you're not exactly pushing the limits of what's possible with any of the above.

Wow, you are way too cool for us.

I have no idea why you guys would want to run that map.

With nearly 2 years of use and 440 posts I'd think you would know the way things work here. I'd say you were a contributing member... but it appears not. It would rather seem you're biting the hand that's fed you. Now you're butt hurt when you know the attitude of this place will feed on you if you're shit isnt in order.

Good luck with your build. Oh yeah, sorry nobody believes you. It's a shame our collected reasoning cant match up to your 14yr tuner who isnt telling you the tune he has on your car.

Ha, you come here and wanna tell us MS sucks. That's like coming here and saying dri fting is the only real auto sport. Ok. Prove it. Show us WHY your AEM is making more power. Don't tell us "because I said so neh neh neh". You think you're right then prove it. Support your claim with reason. Not BS. And do so in a professional manner. If you can.

And yeah if you're 3/4 degree from knock I DAMN sure don't want your map. That's way too close to run on a street motor. Get a little oil in the combustion chambers and you'll be knocking. 1/2 octane lower fuel and you'll knock. etc. Why did you tuner setup spark so aggressively for a street car?

Because apparently he's trying to sell AEMs.

Thats what it sounds like to me.

I'm not telling you MS sucks, I'm showing it. I never once said, "MS sucks." I'll let everyone figure that out for themselves. I was once on that same MS bandwagon, and I have compared similar setups with MS to mine with AEM, and, well, I have posted the numbers, so I'll let you figure out which is better.

Duh, knock sensor. Plus we set it 3/4deg off knock after heatsoaking the IC, and getting the turbo really hot. So it's set to run 3/4deg from knock in the worst case scenario, which makes it perfectly safe for a street tune. Don't you feel safe doing that in the MS? Is it not a capable enough ECU for you to trust it?

...and you wonder why I'm not interested in sharing what we have done beyond the dyno #s. "Why would you do that?"...cause it's an AEM, it's completely capable of doing it without worries.

We wouldn't give out my tune, just the base tune to run with AFM removed.

As far as trying to sell an AEM.....on this site? The home of the DIYers? Never. I was hoping to open a few eyes, but never expected anyone to actually pony up $$$ to do something, when we all know it's about how cheap you can do it on this site.

I try to contribute when and where I can.

I know the tune I have on my car, it's not like I drop it off and then come back to pick it up when he's done. I'm the one who puts it on the dyno, and does the street pulls.

What the fuck ever. You said:

Semantics FTL. Nobody wants to hear this shit. What you said and what you meant. Whatever.

You haven't showed us AEM is better. You posted a dyno chart with no RPM scales and no torque curve for us to "guess" what the RPMs are. Ok. Anything else? I have spark control to 3/32 of a degree accuracy right now with ms MS. And I have Knocksense to pull however much timing I specify when it hears knock. Completely adjustable. Fuel control to three decimals of a second firing low ohm 550's. It's good enough. If you think AEM is better in some way, and enough to make measurable HP gains over MS, prove it. "It is cause I say it is" doesn't mean much.

And you sell AEMs? Oh.

You're showing us the MS sucks by making 225hp and not tuning your own car?

You got me there, assclown.

Show me ANY MS running the same boost levels making anywhere near the same power. You can't, and you know it. That IS the proof. I keep thinking, "water, horse" everytime I have to post. Go compare power levels from my tiny Greddy to the T3 Super 60 that is up, or the GT2871. The T3 makes 6whp MORE and 6psi MORE with a BIGGER TURBO and MS. Hell, lets add the 10% they said they lost from the dyno eddy brake...232+10% = 255.2whp. Wait, is my math right? 236 * 1.1? Or maybe 236 * .1 = 23.6...23.2 + 232 = 255.2. So now that that's not gonna be a debate, it makes 32.2whp more (I made 223whp, 255.2 - 223 = 32.2) with 6psi more on a higher flowing turbo. Either MS is crap, or your tuning is...so which is it? I saw a 38whp jump with a 4psi increase, and we all know the Greddy is a small turbo, even when compared to the GT28, and T3. So what part of those numbers don't PROVE the benefits of AEM?

Oh no, I don't tune my own car. Go alert the police or something. I'm sorry I have someone who can do it for me, and do it well. How much do you pay for your tune? If it's even $0.01, it's more than I paid.

Yes, I do got you there, assclown.

And I said why I did that...but since you HAVE TO SEE THEM...

Attachment 210596

Are you still screaming "conspiracy theory" over why I didn't post it with RPM and torque displayed? Really shows alot, huh? Probably think I was right for posting the one that had a complete graph now, huh?

This a lot of bitchin' over dyno sheets which everybody admits vary drastically. The only real way to prove anything would be to swap ecus on the same car and repeat a dyno run with everything else the same. I don't see that happening. But, having a similar MS car run at the same dyno with Ray might reveal something.

Yeah, Ray has what appear to be high numbers for his setup, BUT his setup is different and he's not running away from his story. :dunno: Oh, and grow up MS babies... run a Link ecu if you want to get kicked around. :giggle:

(assuming your running 10 PSI boost, correct me if I'm wrong)

So, your making 191 wheel torque. And your running 1 bar atmospheric pressure + 10/14.7 bar boost = 1+.68= 1.68 bar.

(211whp) / ((1.6L)(1.68bar)) = 71.06 wheel torque per liter. A VERY impressive number.

Props to you.

Does that mean MS sucks? No. It does means you're making damn good power per liter though. I'd say it's more in the tune than the ECU used to make the tune. Most here setup their cars on the conservative side for reliability and peace of mind. When I say conservative, I'm referring to the spark tables. Hence why I asked to see yours. Most here never tune their spark tables on a dyno. They grab a "safe" one and run it.

That said, there are MS powered cars that make good power too.

I've had to make my own spark table because of the head work I did. Mine is nothing like anyone else's that's been posted. I was merely curious if you are not running something similar to mine. Maybe I could get a yes or no? Here's what I'm running. (note I'm not boosted so I have NOT tuned any boosted cells in this map. Boosted cells are stupidly retarded I know. I'm curious if 100kPa and below tables are similar. Also I've changed this some. Now lowest value in my table is 17*)

Attachment 210595

0.

I especially don't pay someone who misdiagnoses fuel pump issues. :giggle:

I have MS with my greddy and once I get my clutch in, Ill run 10 psi and go to the dyno and tune it myself.. with less than a year exp. :hustler:

Will do. I have to do HIN tonight, so probably not be able to compare them today, maybe Sunday or Monday for sure. I'll not against comparing, as we both might be able to improve our tunes, but I'm not willing to give out the tuning that I have been fortunate to get for no cost. I just don't think that would be fair to him.

I wish everyone was so good they could diagnose a fuel issue over the internet with very little details.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6.../Funny/892.jpg

Good for you. Post up your numbers.

Exactly. We both might benefit, and so may others. That's the idea. If you are concerned about what your tuner thinks about you sharing maps, that's respectable. But could you ask him if he minds? Putting his name out is only going to get him more business. Nothing wrong with that.

Granted I don't have a 1.6L not do I have a stock combustion chamber, so your numbers wouldn't do me too much good. But it would certainly help others who have stock 1.6L heads. I'm mainly curious what the total advance you run is at peak torque and peak power. I'm running about 28* at peak torque and 34* at peak power all at 100kPa. If I had reasonable AIT's (like hurry up and plumb in my IC I installed and ditch my hot air intake) I could dial in another degree or two safely.

I will believe you when I see your car on a dyno with another members car.

Until then, I don't completely write it off- but its hard to take seriously. We have all seen wack dyno plots from FM and Fuji racing etc.

I'm in DFW, but I'm having to save to get it tuned. I'm street tunning right now.

It would be cool if everyone would spend the cost of a beer, and donate $2 to the kick the AEM ass fund. LOL

I would drive down to Begi on my day off, and let them tune it.

He has been talking smack about "tuning AFR's" that Corkey said was optimal.

Stephanie do I hear a discounted group cause coming on? LOL

+1

Theres a few 1.8 -> 1.6Greddy adaptations ;p

+2

Wasn't there going to be a race? I'd rather see direct results between your car and a few MS greddy cars at the drag strip on the same day. But I know that's not going to happen. It's way easier to print dyno sheets.

Interesting that your tuner tunes the spark maps for knock and not power.