Finally dyno tuned - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 05-30-2009, 04:31 PM   #1
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Default Finally dyno tuned



Dynojet 224X 2wd In-Ground Chassis Dyno

Sorry dyno sheet not very good, scanner broke. This is a picture from my phone

Overall it was a good experience. I was hoping for a little bit better, but I sure everyone does. It revealed that my wastegate needs to be replaced. Dyno guy said that it looks like the diaphragm is bad, which is causing the boost to fall off quickly after peak. The torque curve shows this. I'm not really sure what psi I'm running. When I arrived I was running 12 psi. The baseline pull was 193 hp and 178 tq, but there was a lot of knock in the datalog. He tuned out the knock and the hp dropped into the 180s. After tuning spark and fuel a little more it was back into the 90's At this point since I was expecting over 200 hp I asked him to turn up the boost. The ebc didn't seem to be controlling the boost very well because he upped boost to 13 psi and there was no change. He then used the wastegate % to adjust boost, and this yielded results. The wastegete % is set to 70% across all boost cells on my LINK. When all was said and done the car made 212hp, and 201 tq. He said that I could probably gain 5 hp by removing the high flow cat and replacing with test pipe, but it wasn't really going to be worth it unless I just liked looking at the dyno numbers. (unless of course it is damaged and restricting flow.) I'll probably replace it myself. Car feels much better. Very smooth. I still think it should have been higher than 193 hp at 12 psi. How do you correlate boost psi with wastegate %? At least with this tune I have no knock, spark tuned, and fuel tuned really well. Any thoughts other than Why's your ***** **** so slow

I've added my timing map.
Attached Files
File Type: xls Dyno tuned timing map.xls (17.5 KB, 144 views)

Last edited by miatauser884; 06-01-2009 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 05-30-2009, 04:42 PM   #2
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Well, remember that the 1.6's just don't flow so well as the 1.8's heads and intake manifolds, so we are restricted right there from what a lot of guys get from the same psi. There area ton of little factors that can affect your power, perhaps your cat is clogged a bit, perhaps your motor is rather tired, perhaps the older FM kit has an inferior downpipe design to more recent ones... it all adds up. Either way, yes 193 hp seems a bit low for 12 psi.
-Ryan
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Old 05-30-2009, 04:49 PM   #3
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That makes me really curious to see how much mine is putting down at 13 PSI
sure feels like more than 200... Guess I wouldn't really know though.
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Old 05-30-2009, 05:03 PM   #4
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Gives me something to think about when it comes to my next engine. Stay with 1.6or go with 1.8. So what recommendations to guys have for increasing the flow on a 1.6?

In any case, I think it was worth it to know that I have a really safe tune. He tuned out the knock based on the knock sensor, so we never actually heard any knock. I bet the timing is still a touch conservative, (haven't looked at new map) It cost me 300 bucks. He did in a couple of hours what would have taken me all day datalogging, and I still would question my tune because of my inexperience.

I'll probably replace the cat with a test pipe in the next couple of months.
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Old 05-30-2009, 05:37 PM   #5
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It also just occured to me that you said that you have a weak wastegate that, while it was hitting 12 psi or so initially, was trailing off to much lower boost levels in the higher rpms. Care to be more specific? Notice that your peak tq was pretty good, down where you were still getting good boost but your peak HP is lower than expected - up in the rpms where you were losing boost. If you were peaking at 12 psi around 3.5k but dropping to like 9 psi at redline, that explains your HP having a lower peak than you would expect for 12 psi - because you didn't have 12 psi. My dyno for example, peaked at 11 psi at 4k but settled to 10 psi for most of the rpms range and 9.5 psi at redline. So, I call it 10 psi.
As to flow, there are some things we can do to the heads, basic port and polish, port match, 3 angle valve job, etc. but the truth is none of that will net huge improvements - no amount of work will suddenly make our heads flow like a B16 head... I think the biggest thing we can do is wait for BEGi to finish up the 1.6L turbo intake manifold. That should help a lot.
-Ryan
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Old 05-30-2009, 11:46 PM   #6
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really good point about wastegate and rpm numbers. I'll get a wastegate on order while im on vacation. I wont hit the dyno immediately, but I'll see what the butt dyno has to say. thanks
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Old 05-31-2009, 12:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djp0623 View Post
The torque curve shows this.
Do your logs confirm this? torque loss looks typical.
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:48 AM   #8
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Yes the logs did confirm the drop in torque. The boost curve looks almost exactly like the torque curve. After peak. At first I was hesitant about spending the money, but it was worth it. Not just for the gains in peak HP and Tq, but the increase in the mir range responsiveness. The pull in 2nd gear is amazing now compared to what it was.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djp0623 View Post
Gives me something to think about when it comes to my next engine. Stay with 1.6or go with 1.8. So what recommendations to guys have for increasing the flow on a 1.6?

In any case, I think it was worth it to know that I have a really safe tune. He tuned out the knock based on the knock sensor, so we never actually heard any knock. I bet the timing is still a touch conservative, (haven't looked at new map) It cost me 300 bucks. He did in a couple of hours what would have taken me all day datalogging, and I still would question my tune because of my inexperience.

I'll probably replace the cat with a test pipe in the next couple of months.

when i blew my 1.6L I went with a 1.8L. The same turbo that was perfect on the 1.6L spooled 500rpm faster on the 1.8L and made a LOT more midrange power. 1.8L for sure, easy decision.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:44 PM   #10
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But is it worth the added cost for someone on a budget?
When I finally build mine I think I will stick to the 1.6 - I can get forged rods, auto pistons + coatings, ARP head studs and a full rebuild kit for about $900-$1000 plus labor for a shop to assemble it all, and maybe throw in some headwork like a 3 angle valve job.
This I could run 20 psi on.
To go with the 1.8, first I would need to get one, instead of re-using my motor. Even if I blow my motor, the 1.8 costs more than a 1.6. Add to that the 1.8 conversion kit from FM, and an ETD manifold for the 1.8 to make the Greddy fit, and you're looking at almost $800 more.
Yes, spool is better with more displacement, but we have short gearing and you can get the 1.6 to spool by 3.5k and if in any race you are below that rpm, you are doing something wrong, so who needs 2800 rpm max boost? For a budget, I'd stick with the 1.6.
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
But is it worth the added cost for someone on a budget?
When I finally build mine I think I will stick to the 1.6 - I can get forged rods, auto pistons + coatings, ARP head studs and a full rebuild kit for about $900-$1000 plus labor for a shop to assemble it all, and maybe throw in some headwork like a 3 angle valve job.
This I could run 20 psi on.
To go with the 1.8, first I would need to get one, instead of re-using my motor. Even if I blow my motor, the 1.8 costs more than a 1.6. Add to that the 1.8 conversion kit from FM, and an ETD manifold for the 1.8 to make the Greddy fit, and you're looking at almost $800 more.
Yes, spool is better with more displacement, but we have short gearing and you can get the 1.6 to spool by 3.5k and if in any race you are below that rpm, you are doing something wrong, so who needs 2800 rpm max boost? For a budget, I'd stick with the 1.6.

i see what your saying, but the 1.8L is far superior. It makes a lot more power at all rpms.
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Old 06-03-2009, 02:30 PM   #12
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I'd be quite interested to see dyno comparisons from a guy who had one given turbo setup on his 1.6 who then blew his motor or just chose to swap it to a 1.8 and then dyno'd that same setup on the new motor.
But, I don't think that data exists, and comparing one person's 1.6 setup to another's 1.8 setup when they are two different cars/setups, is basically just too many variables to get a solid idea of what kind of increases the 1.8 allows.
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Old 06-03-2009, 04:21 PM   #13
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Here's one that shows a 1.6 FM II vs. 1.8 FM II, both at 12 psi

http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/dyno_...s_1.8_FMII.pdf

More comparisons here:
Flyin' Miata : Dyno results
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Old 06-04-2009, 03:38 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
I'd be quite interested to see dyno comparisons from a guy who had one given turbo setup on his 1.6 who then blew his motor or just chose to swap it to a 1.8 and then dyno'd that same setup on the new motor.
But, I don't think that data exists, and comparing one person's 1.6 setup to another's 1.8 setup when they are two different cars/setups, is basically just too many variables to get a solid idea of what kind of increases the 1.8 allows.
the 1.8 will make around 20ft/lb and 20whp more at the same boost levels. maybe more, the 1.8l head flows better than the 1.6L and its got more displacement. The rod stroke is the same, just bore size increased so the 1.8 likes to rev just as much too.
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Old 06-04-2009, 05:30 PM   #15
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200whp is pathetic slow, lol.
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Old 06-04-2009, 07:06 PM   #16
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200whp is pathetic slow, lol.


True, but at least he didn't drive home with a soggy ***.
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Old 06-17-2009, 11:57 PM   #17
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Well, it was sort of a sad day today. Nothing broke so that's why I say sort of. I just came back from vacation and decided to really drive my car a see how it felt. I noticed that my boost gauge was going to 17 psi. I'm only making 212 hp at 17 psi ???? That seems kinda shitty. It seems to spool ok, so I can't imagine that the cat is clogged. The diaphragm in the wastegate isn't holding at max boost, but it still manages to get to 17 psi on gauge.

Any ideas on what could be wrong, or is this just the turbo that I'm running?

I've read here that the stock internals are less dependent on boost than hp numbers when it comes to breaking things. I'm tracking my car his Sat. Should I tone down the boost, or run it the way it is. All numbers are confirmed by a dyno, and it's not knocking.

Come on hustler, 212hp at 17psi
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