GT2554R Record??? leads to a run of the mill EFR build
 

Hey again everyone, back again with another dyno. So from the very beginning of my build all I wanted was the fattest torque curve possible on a stock motor, so naturally I started with a 1.6 (Just kidding don't Alt+F4 yet). I actually never intended on boosting this car but then I did so... here I am. As much as I loved my Begi churbo, the 135wtq @ 3500 wasn't fun anymore. So I went to a GT2554R. Then E85, LS coils, full 2.5" catless turbo-back, etc. Made 254/231 and 205wtq @ 3500. Then I threw a billet compressor wheel at it because I wanted more, and after the motor had already held up for 30,000+ miles of daily driving and autocross/drag events every 1-2 months, I figured it was healthy. Back on the same dyno in the same 90 degree temps, a little more boost and timing later, and the car is more alive than ever. I will have a full review/analysis/weights/measures video of the billet wheel vs. the stock wheel on my YouTube channel in a few days. Okokok, here it is:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1456240564

Stuff that matters:
"GTX"2554R 13psi, taper to 15.5psi from 5000-7000 (on purpose)
Begi Cast Manifold
E85
LS2 Truck Coils
7lb Flywheel
MS2PnP
2.5" IC + Piping
Five-0 750cc Injectors (Run Sequentially)
Five-0 340lph Pump
2.5" Catless Turbo Back, DynoMax Race Bullet
5-Speed (4th gear pull)
3.9 Torsen
210K Mile 1.6L, Stock from the valve cover to the oil pan internally
ATI Super Damper
Tuning insight & oversight from the local turbo Miata master Toby @ Advanced Engine Dynamix

Things that make me love this car:
150wtq @ 2750
200wtq @ 3400
200wtq @ 6900
Everything in between.

Pretty cool, never seen a 2554 upgraded like that. solid setup overall, but you're definitely not touching a 1.8 torque curve
what are the measurements of the cast wheel vs gtx wheel?
creep by default isn't "on purpose" you probably mean taper.

and please post up your trap speeds from the 1/4 mile so we can tell you if that 276 is legit.
either way though congrats on a solid setup

My 1.6L $150 T3 had a better tq curve*. and i didnt have all the extra silly fueling mods to support 500hp with a 250rwhp turbo.


thanks for playing.



you lose.







but seriously, all that silly fueling, and good parts, and youre still running a 2.5" exhaust...








*it was actually pretty similar, still just about as good as a 1.8L spooling a GT2871R

You should post here moar often. :likecat:

Plot looks awsome, I bet it's a very fun vehicle. :bigtu:

What kind of exhaust manifold are you using?

Nice numbers. I wonder what a 3" exhaust upgrade would do for you.

276/241 seems pretty crazy on a stock 1.6 with 2554, congrats.

Would like to compare dyno's if you still have yours available, just out of curiosity.

Begi Cast

Sorry, fixed the terminology, haha. The core of the wheel is much more slim so the blades measure longer. (13.2mm "primary" blades, 11.2mm (secondary" blades vs 14.8mm "primary" and "secondary" on the billet.) The billet wheel is also 34g compared to 44g so I'm sure that helps with response. I mostly made the 1.8 comment to bring in all the 1.8-heads to prove me wrong, and I couldn't find a dyno on here of a stock 1.8 that looked any better than mine. No doubt they have more potential. I haven't run it yet since I only did this Saturday, but I ran 87.54mph in the 1/8 when I was at 254whp, I want to run her again soon and will post up.

Me too. Not that I want to make a drop more than 240wtq, but maybe a little extra up top? I still think this turbo is so close to being out of air that it wouldn't help much, but who knows, maybe I'll find out. My 2.5" exhaust is straight back from the downpipe all the way out, no silly double 90 degree bends like factory.

240 torqz at 13 psi on a 1.6 = 80 ft-lbs/atmo/L

I call bullz. Dyno calibration is off.

It made the 240 @ 14-15psi and corn timing, still not believable? Serious question

there are a bunch of 2560's, ill dig up some 2554's later if I'm bored
but to start,
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1456242784
1/4 trap speed will tell the story

You can only advance spark so much on a tiny turbo that supposedly chokes after 5500rpm

I just want to point out that my torque in that dyno was done on a MS1, a stock exhaust, MBC, and I have not clue what the boost level was. It was from the first time I ever had the car on a dyno with next to no tuning. So it definitely is not the best showing of what the turbo can do on a 1.8.

Oooh I like the pretty blue one. Red... 280+wtq on a stock block?

I think a vband ARTech + EWG + 3" dp & full exhaust is in your future.

You'll know then for sure if your turbo is running out of puff :likecat:

Here, have a dounut :giggle:

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/graphics...-282_b450.jpg?

Blue one might have been a 2560. The red one I believe was a stock motor. There have been a few people who have ran more then 250ft/lbs on stock motors, I think a lot of it is luck.

Jason should chime in w/ his dyno plot since he ran a 2554 on his 99 iirc
cant find it now, but most 1.8's with 2554 make 200 at or before 3k

It has to be, right? I mean I even think my motor running so good for so long is a little luck as well, considering people have lost motors at lower levels with supposed "good tunes." At any rate, that makes me feel better, haha.

the tuning is not the issue on most of these cars. it's not like we have ringland or weak poston problems. we have rod problems. this is from making too much torque, or cylinder pressure, depending on how you look at it.

the higher up you make your torque and the more mechanical empathy you have the longer it usually lasts.

there's a local making 350 on his Miata for a while. stock bp. it was a giant snail that made power/torque in the last 1500rpm of the powerband

Which is exactly why I added the boost taper and some extra timing up top, I want to stay at 240wtq, but would love to make more horsepower up top as long as I can stay under that. I'm thinking of swapping to a 60R cold side to help accomplish it.

In my opinion you need to upsize the turbine/hotside/exhaust to keep gaining power the correct way. Upsizing the cold side cover will likely not gain anything at this point.
I'd start with exhaust

15 psi -> 75 ft-lbs/atmo/L still too high. Highest numbers I've seen are closer to 70.

$150 T3 50 trim chinacharger (compressor wheel plots like a 2554 wheel)
BEGi exhaust manifold
3" exhaust
ms3 (seq. fueling & seq. spark)
93 octane
really horrible $50 460cc rx7 injectors and the stock fuel pump
16° timing in boost

I started adding boost up top, like you, after I did this dyno:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1456245743

Those are corrected number from the dyno dynamics it was run on, but it matched all my other dynojet runs pretty spot on.


overlaying them they are pretty close, i never liked how it spooled on the dyno in this plot, it always logged much more lineraly like yours.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...336ba47c27.png


nice to see someone else not suck at 1.6L though :)

So what you're saying is, my motor is safer than this graph says. Perfect!

Scared of loosing my good spoolup in going to a GT/GTX2860R :(

Decisions. (inb4 "just get a 1.8")

na breh, reread my comment.

What 18 means is, optimize your exhaust mani & full exhaust... Like what I said.

A doughnut vband 2560 + EWG would be purrfect :likecat: (even if you stick with your 2554)

A GT28, yes you'll loose dat spool. A GTX28 will be 'close' to a 2560 spool but will hit like a hammer later on.

you don't have good spoolup anyway.
and yes, you should definitely go 1.8 :)
I love it when I agree with myself and blindly ignore any conflicting info :giggle:

I need to drive one of these "good spooling" cars before I go out and buy a motor, manifold, and the rest of allofit. I just wanna fit in anyways :wavey:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1456251438

Just saying. Those silly fuel mods might be good for something.

He's saying you don't need all those fueling mods, but if you got em, who cares, it's better to have an overbuilt system anyway :)

And don't take the criticism too hard, I'm sure your setup is great, and if you like it then that's all that matters.

It looks like a very solid setup :)
But comments like "better than 1.8" will get trolled :likecat:

Yeah I got it. That's why I love you guys because I can always post something here and get *actual* criticism (and knowledge). I got tired of doing things twice with the fuel system so I wanted to go a little (a lot on the pump) overkill. 750cc doesn't seem too crazy for 250+whp on E85 though does it?

i think you missed how jovial my post was, and that i already posted the overlay and said you didnt suck at 1.6L.

Maybe I wanted to hear it twice :dealwithit:

Side note, on the logs it definitely looks different, my car spools in 4th on the dyno like 3rd or 2nd on the street. Peak boost on the dyno in 4th is at 36-37 where in 4th on the street it's around 30-31.

that's because the dynojet aint load bearing

Brian chinaturbo, 1.6 and corn.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1456256961

Taper boost, for 200ft/lbs

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1453073510

Ran out of fuel, need to try again after larger fuel pump.

When I turn it up I imagine I'll have you beat just about everywhere.

Since you called me out for not replying to your post, it was because it's a VD. Doing a pull on the road compared to a DynoJet yields significantly faster spool up. I'll turn my boost down to 9.5psi and do a 4th gear VD pull on the street and post it up for comparison.

You say t3 doesn't spool, sounds like it's about the same to me. You say you hit full boost at 3200 on the street, I'm at 10 pounds before 3K. This is why I called you out on youtube...

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451020675

Your budget build would be much easier if you just set a t3 on the taco log. No dumbass shitty adapters held down by swiss cheese home depot bolts to stretch.

You're acting like I'm building a car for you and charging you for it, chillax. 'Grats on the spool. Tomorrow's video might settle you down a bit.

I'm sorry, I had no idea you degraded into youtube hell so fast you no longer cared to convey useful and truthful data. Another haggard garage, wonderbar.


I won't bother any longer. Carry on.

Wow.

:likecat:

internetz = srs bidness

here, have a cat :likecat:

I like the re-tapping the manifold much more then the spacer. Hopefully the cheap studs that you cut short hold up, that is the only possible thing I see possibly going wrong.

As for which T3 China Charger to go with below are the specs. Basically you want to search eBay for "t3 turbo 2.5" v-band .42ar" and then compare the specs in the auction to what I have below. Get the one that matches these specs exactly. CXRacing and Rev9Power are the 2 brands that I recommend and you can usually make an offer in the $190-210 range and have it be accepted. The big thing you want to make sure you do is port the waste gate hole to be larger.

T3 TURBO CHARGER INTERNAL WASTEGATE .48ar
Intake: 2.5 inch
Inlet: 2.25 inch
Compressor trim: .42ar
Compressor Wheel diameter: 43.20 / 60.41
Turbine Wheel diameter: 45.74 / 62.86
Exhaust Trim: .48ar
Turbine flange type: t3 flange
Down pipe flange type :2.50" v band
Cooling type: oil cool only
Horsepower rating: 325-350
Actuator setting: 8psi

Thanks for that good info. I'm going to throw it into the description on the video. Not surprised on the wastegate either, with the Begi churbo on my other car I could lock the flapper open and it would still hit 9psi by redline, lol. The Garrett barely hit 1psi when my wastegate bracket broke.

The begi churbo is a joke and should be outlawed.

I know first hand, but............. I already have one so I'm using it. But yeah it makes like 3psi @ 3000 with a 2.5" catless exhaust. When I dyno the car post turbo I'll be strongly recommending against it and have a graph to show why, lol.

In for new churbo spool data... :likecat:

In the 'I Want Your Spool Data' thread I have this churbo vs my 2554R (in the last couple pages of the thread somewhere) if you were intersted. On this car with stock exhaust I'm going to post it up again just to make everyone else feel better about their setup :bowrofl:

Post manifold adapter?

Oh no, I never actually installed the adapter on a car, just bolted the setup together. On my other car I've always just had the Begi cast mani.

Still in for 1/4 mile MPH to confirm dyno reading.

BWAHAHAHAA.


nice.


love it.



:likecat::likecat::likecat::likecat: :likecat::likecat:




i dont think ive laughed so hard before.

Not sure how soon I'll be able to make it up to California Speedway but I really want to find out for myself as well. I'm thinking about marking out a rouge quarter mile on a desolate road and running it, combining on board video with MS logs to calculate my speed & time.

Hahaha. I was hoping you'd appreciate my humor. :rofl:

I though that might have been what you had, the welded compressor inlet screamed BEGi touched it.

I approve of the new video

hahaha I like this n00b

You mentioned posting 1/4 trap speeds to see how legit my 276whp dyno reading was, which has had me wanting to run a quarter ever since. The nearest one is pretty far away, but I did a couple other tests that should be somewhat informative. So my best 1/8 mile has been 8.558@87.88mph. Using GPS and MS tach readings, I did a couple flat freeway pulls simulating the big end of the quarter (80-120mph) and estimating the car should run 12.5-13.0 I calculated approximately 112-114mph trap speeds. (Timing from 87.88mph up to 4 and 4.5 seconds of acceleration past that, simulating 12.5 and 13.0 ET's.)

Also, I have run three different stock 2015 Mustang 5.0's in the 1/8, and I trap 2-3mph higher than all of them. Those cars usually trap ~112mph in the 1/4, so assuming I would hang with them or pull slightly, that confirms my 112-114 estimate. What thinks the mt.net skeptics?

Edit: weight with driver: 2400lbs

I think the bench racing is cute, and as always, oh so optimistic.
The track has a tendency of being the biggest skeptic, and usually very humbling to people who use calculators to estimate how fast their car is.

If you truly run 12.5 @ 114 with 276 I will be very impressed and will prop cat every one of your posts in this thread.
*edit: I'll even apologize for doubting you. :party:

just for fun, here's a calculator:
Wallace Racing - 1/8th Stats to 1/4 Stats Calculator

I'll be in Santa Cruz tomorrow, want to race my slow 15 mustang? :D

Well, I was relying more on actually trapping 2-3mph faster in the 1/8 than a car known to trap 112 in a quarter. I'm not concerned with ET as it has more to do with how much you dislike your trans.

Even if you hated your trans, it's hard to get these cars out of the hole unless you got some really soft sticky slicks.
But who cares about et, I'm more curious about what your trap speed will be. 87mph in teh 1.8 is legit though, grats on that (if that's what you ran)
my MSM trapped 84 in the 1/8 and 105 in the 1/4, to compare against something. (with 230hp,j at least 200lb more weight and 6sp gearing)